AIBU to make excuses for dd’s mean friend?

[queenceleste]

Dd has a “friendship” group in 6th form that has been together since year 8 with some personnel changes. One of the group has always been fairly snarky to my dd. It’s always been presented as teasing but the impact on dd is very negative. Of course she needs to work towards better friends but this group holds people she is hugely invested including this girl who is sometimes a good mate.
I tend to excuse the mean behaviour because this girl has a challenging home life at the moment, a very unwell younger sibling and parents mid divorce.
Does that make her treatment of my dd acceptable? To excuse it or at least explain it? Of course my dd should just change groups but that is not at all easy - if it were then she would do it. Does this home life excuse this girl’s mean behaviour? Dd is wary of directly confronting this girl as she is sort of protected by this situation.

Tulips, it’s more snark and sarcasm and sort of excluding her from conversations and always talking about times when dd wasn’t included.

Of course - it’s hard to process, especially at that age.

I think schools are kinder places now which is great but it does tend to come as a shock when kids start to see that not everyone puts a premium on being kind and inclusive.

I am GenX and, whilst the bullying was shit, we also learnt very young that people may not like you/be nice to you, and I think it gives you a certain resilience through life.

Absolutely Anarchy. It’s hard when you see your value in terms of what your friends think of you.
I think she feels there must be something wrong with but I think it’s just the hardest lesson. The people we love don’t always value us or love us back.

“I just feel as if my dd has become someone who this girl takes her anger out on and I want to find a rationale for it.”

So you’re permitting your dd to be a punchbag!

Not at all! I’ve been trying for a long time to support her out of this but this is her main group, there’s lots of pretending that it’s only joking and I can’t force her to do anything she doesn’t feel equal to.
I hate every minute of it

Ok. It just sounded like you were trying to excuse other girl’s behaviour, due to her background, and letting her get away with the bullying, rather getting your daughter to stand up for her self.

Can your daughter speak up, and ask why friend is being mean to her, or use the mn favourite expression, ‘did you mean to be do rude?!’.

Except the only answer to the ‘MN favourite’ is ‘yes actually I did. It’s not the clever line people think

I just feel as if my dd has become someone who this girl takes her anger out on and I want to find a rationale for it.

Stop playing cool mum and support your dd.

Short of leaving the group, what do you suggest though? They are almost adults, do you want the OP to go and speak to the parent? The DD will come across plenty of people in her life that she finds difficult so it’s a good time to learn resilience, before she starts working.

Why are you protecting your child’s BULLY?!!

They are almost adults - did you miss that bit?

Just to be clear, this girl is sometimes nice. The wider group is full of DD’s friends. There is an air of banter which means the mean stuff has been sort of tolerated. This is an established pattern. She would have to really go it alone to leave. I try to support her boundaries. She has to choose what to do at her age of course.

I am just trying to create an explanation in my head for why a very able and bright student is so horrible to a ”friend”. I wish I could understand it is all. We appear to be stuck with this group until dd has the resilience to leave or change the dynamic somehow 🤷‍♀️

Also just for context - I worked for two years with a colleague who was on my level but was a really nasty divisive undermining piece of work. My boss adored her and enabled it. I tried to cope with it but it was very hard. Life sends us these challenges and we need to find strategies to survive and overcome or leave.

You sound more sensible than most on here!

However I would put money on the fact she doesn’t like your daughter and it suits to sometimes speak to her and sometimes not. That’s what people are like.

Your DD is now in a position to learn to navigate this - she doesn’t have to confront her but she needs to learn how to bounce back from things like this or she will end up like half of the women on here, agonising about people not including them and wondering why.

No, your daughter is not that girls therapy or punching bag. It isn't acceptable.

I think you would best support her by telling her that what her friend is dealing with may be a reason for her behaviour (or not), but it is not an excuse to treat people poorly. Encourage your daughter to have strong boundaries and not tolerate bad behaviour toward her by this friend, or anyone else. She doesn't have to 'be kind' because someone is having a tough time of it. She can still be supportive while not putting up with any nonsense.

I'm not sure I agree with this tbh. Young women (in particular) are so apt to be expected to tolerate unkind or insensitive behaviour in the name of "being kind" or keeping up with the right crowd. If I'd learned a bit of spine when I was in my teens I would have saved myself a lot of shit in later life.

Being empathetic and aware of someone's personal challenges doesn't mean you have to become a doormat. To the extent that you're involved with this at all, I'd be encouraging your daughter to have firm boundaries and a developed sense of self-esteem, rather than encouraging her to put up with a toxic friend.

Exactly - she needs to learn to be resilient

All your feedback has helped. I have suggested pulling away from being a target and positively seeking conversation with warmer people. Changing the dynamic and focusing on protecting herself and giving the negative part of the group some space. Also we talked about absolutely blanking any comments that feel like she’s being picked on. So she is low but is starting to think more actively about strategy and also I suspect starting to let go of the ‘bystanders’ who she really doesn’t want to lose. I think real friends aren’t bystanders to mean sh**.
Resilience for the future is the one bonus of your ‘friends’ breaking your heart a bit I guess?

Personally, I’d get your dd to say something. ‘Why do you feel the need to have a go at me? I’d really like to know.’
I’d say it nicely enough, and preferably with others present.

And if she comes back with, ‘I was just joking!’ I’d reply, ‘Well, it really isn’t funny.’

Edited to add, I suffered a lot from bullying by a really horrible girl at senior school, but thank goodness it had largely stopped by the time we were in the 6th form. She went on to be a primary teacher - I’ve often felt for any poor children unlucky enough to be in her classes.

Friendship groups tend to split and change in sixth form. Your daughter is frightened of challenging the mean girl but really needs to take the oxygen out of the situation in a calm way.

I’m always curious as to why people advise this. If the DD isn’t prepared for a full on confrontation that is bad advice.

The girl clearly doesn’t like her, and the DD is clearly not a confrontational sort so it’s possible that she will hear something she doesn’t want to hear (don’t underestimate young women and their capacity for taking someone apart that they don’t like).

The other girl knows what she is doing so it’s not like it’s going to give her pause for thought.

The other people in the group clearly don’t have an issue with how she talks to the DD but if she asks her about it (presumably with a tinkly laugh and a head tilt) it’s possible that she will end up not being friends with any of them.

She is almost an adult so she needs to understand that she will meet people who don’t like her and will wind her up. Just as she will meet people she doesn’t like.

It is the downside of the culture of schools and parents teaching kids to be kind at all times and to include everyone even if they don’t like them - it only works if everyone does it! Then when they leave school they realise that people are not necessarily kind and inclusive in the real world.

Why would you assume she’s still a bully though?

Everyone has to learn that lesson at some point. Being so invested in any relationship, particularly at her age, to the point she is heartbroken is not good for her.

She needs to be able to be on her own too - to be able to do that comfortably is something they really should be teaching as it makes you a lot less vulnerable to have that strength