AIBU to be surprised by how much some parents seem to use punishments?

[TheFairCat]

There have been a couple of threads recently about smacking and other types of discipline etc. The general consensus seems to be that smacking isn’t great but that without it parents have very little control over their children and don’t know how to ‘discipline’ them.

There also seems to be lot of talk about ‘consequences’ and banning devices, cancelling plans, taking toys away etc.

AIBU to be really surprised by this? I am by NO MEANS a ‘perfect’ parent (if such a thing exists) but generally my children just do what I ask them to do because I ask them. I have never even come close to smacking them and rarely if ever confiscate things (I might have taken things away if they were throwing them etc, but only briefly out of reach while I re-directed). Most of the time if I ask them to do something and they start complaining it’s enough just to give them ‘the look’. Similarly a raised eye-brow will often do the trick.

my eldest (10) is ND with some learning difficulties and parenting her is demanding in many, many ways but she does do as she’s asked most of the time. Both kids know what is expected and what behaviour is acceptable and for example, if my daughter is stroppy about doing something (tells me to go away, refuses to do it etc) I don’t generally have to ‘do’ anything. I just give it a bit of time and she will come and apologise and I’ll say something along the lines of ‘it’s OK to be frustrated, but it’s not OK to shout at me’ etc. and then she’ll do the thing I asked her to do and no more will be said about it. I guess some people might be shocked at how she’s spoken to me, but she will apologise of her own accord and will always be expected to do the thing I asked of her. I don’t know if maybe I just have low expectations/don’t ask for much? Basically both children know that we expect to be treated with kindness and respect and that they do what they are asked to (put away their dishes, put their clothes away, tidy up their mess, turn off their screens when asked, eat at the table etc.). I feel like they do those things because they don’t want us to be cross with them/want to please us? I guess I’m quite strict in that I have firm boundaries and definite ‘red lines’. I expect them to do things for themselves if they can, but they are allowed to express their feelings and emotions and I do listen.

They are currently 8 and 10. Am I in for a shock??

When you say they will eventually do what they are asked because they don’t want you be cross. Isn’t that the consequence/ punishment? Their punishment is effectively guilt for making you angry and disappointed. It works the same way as losing screen time or pudding. Some might say the latter is preferable because it takes the emotional out of the situation.
The reality is we all use consequence in some way whether we recognise that or not.

Um, not that!!!

I guess because I’ve told them before I don’t like that behaviour and why I don’t like it (e.g. the reason I don’t want you to eat with your hands is then you wipe all the grease onto the table/sofa/chairs etc and I have to clear it up) they know that if they do it I’m not going to be impressed. I’ll give them the Paddington hard stare to remind them! I guess maybe they just don’t want the lecture and I’m naively thinking they don’t want to do something they know will piss me off? In my mind it’s just: I’m not asking you to do anything that’s beyond your ability and I’ve explained why I don’t want you to do it. It a reasonable request with a reasonable explanation so why wouldn’t you do it?

I’m with you @TheFairCat and have a similar parenting style. I was also a teacher for years and rewards and sanctions are a temporary sticking plaster. Kids are humans just like adults. Think about yourself. If your boss threatens you for doing something they don’t like, it may work for a while, but over time you would lose your respect for them and do the absolute minimum (& leave the job as soon as possible). If instead, your boss teaches you, tells you when you’ve messed up but gives you support to fix it and appreciates you - you’d be far more likely to do your best for them. Kids are really no different. I parent through relationship not threats or bribes. I manage the same way.

Interesting thread. I have a more stubborn/explosive child and I have to reinforce boundaries a lot. I'm quite surprised though about how many parents have admitted to me in private that they smack their kids 😬 and also impose what I consider to be humiliating punishments. One mum I know who has two lovely and very compliant little boys says she regularly makes them stand facing the front door or in a corner for long periods of time if they have misbehaved (for things like general fizziness and hyper behaviour like running indoors not listening, knocking a glass over etc). If they had done something malicious or really shitty I'd understand this but I can't see how this is constructive.

Yeah I would say that's the same for my kids to a large extent. However, I have seen a "dark" version of this where the kids are terrified of the reaction of the adult from how they've seen them react to others and so they comply out of pure fear. It might be the threat of physical violence or emotional abuse.

Those reels are staged to be funny BTW. They arent "fly on the wall". I find them uncomfortable nonetheless.

I get the impression not a lot of school parents will mix with the OP.

I'm the same. I've never really done the consequences thing. All mine turning out ok so far

Ditto.

My first was a dream to parent, OP. My second, well bloody hell, he nearly broke me as a small kid. I remember so any occasions where I could have smacked ( but didn’t).

Yes, I think you’ve described it much better than I was managing!

This is what I mean. It’s not that I’m sobbing into a tissue when my kids misbehave and telling them how horribly they’ve ’disappointed mummy’. I don’t think I’m a particularly overly emotional parent and I don’t mean that I use emotional blackmail or coerce them into doing what I want.

I just mean that I don’t ask them to do things they aren’t capable of or that they aren’t capable of understanding the reason for. I try to explain why I want or don’t want them to do things. They definitely don’t always do things the first, or even the third time I ask them and my daughter who is now also quite hormonal will sometimes be quite stroppy, but they do always do it eventually and generally I think it’s because they know what I’m asking is quite reasonable and fair (and maybe that I’ll keep asking until they do it…. 😳). They will also apologise without being prompted when they’ve been unkind or unfair. I have never punished either or them by confiscating their belongings, putting them in any kind of time out/naughty chair, sending them to their bedroom, cancelling treats or activities or not giving them food etc.

I can see why I might come across as smug, but honestly I’m not! My kids are both pretty challenging in their own ways and my eldest needs a lot of additional support. I was just genuinely surprised to see how many people on a couple of threads suggesting they felt they had no way of getting their kids to do what they were told and that although they thought slapping was wrong sometimes it felt like the only option.

In terms of friends and family I would say most seem to parent similarly to us. Like I say our children are more complicated than most and probably require more ‘parenting’. Some of our friends are definitely more shouty than us and some definitely use more ‘punishments’ but perhaps their children are allowed more screen time etc in the first place. The thing I notice most is how some other children speak to their parents, which seems quite rude and disrespectful to me. However, I’m sure we let our children do things they would be equally surprised by.

Why do you say that? Because our kids have additional needs?

I suppose if I’m honest I probably haven’t given it that much thought. We just parented the way that seemed to work best for us and didn’t pay that much attention to what others were doing.

I’d say most of our friends parent similarly, but we’ve never really talked about it. I’m perhaps a bit more ‘old-fashioned’ than some of our friends and are quite strict about screen time and a few other things, but I just assumed that was being a SEN parent.

I work in paediatrics and I don’t think many of the families I work with use punishments much either, but maybe they just don’t tell me about it 🤷‍♀️

Your post is coming across as very smug, self-righteous and judgemental which is extremely upsetting for a lot of people. Not all children will be like yours and many children need discipline, boundaries and consequences. Children push boundaries and act up because they don’t understand the world so it’s our job to teach them the right way which sometimes needs firm punishment because kids are headstrong. Judging other parents for using strict punishments just because you’ve never had to is unkind. Before you come at me, I don’t agree with smacking either but I do agree with time outs, taking away toys and keeping them from enjoyable activities as a consequence for poor behaviour which they haven’t modified when I’ve repeatedly warned them already.

Why do you say that? Because our kids have additional needs?

That's so funny but you know full well I was alluding to the fact you're clearly 'that parent', and therefore the reason why.

The thread's been a slow burner but you're jumping the shark now.

I don’t make threats (they would completely overwhelm and panic her) and I have to be absolutely consistent (I would say more so than other parents, but maybe not). So I can’t let her do something once because I’m tired or she’s tired or we’re both ill or whatever because then she absolutely will not understand when she’s not allowed to do it the next day. My son could probably manage much more flexibility, but because my daughter was first that’s how we’re used to parenting.

I guess by ‘wearing them down’ I just meant always expecting the same things, asking until the things were done and never backing down how ever much whining there was! Perhaps they’re just sick of the sound of my voice 🤷‍♀️.

I might have said similar when my kids were your age. Now my daughter is 13 so… lololo

🤣🤦‍♀️ yes, this is my fear! It’s been quite the journey so far and I was reading some of the responses on the other threads and thinking ooooooohhhhh shit, is it just that we haven’t got there yet!

A friend once described parenting as being like buckaroo…. Just as you think you’ve got the hang of it they just throw you off a different way!

I'm with you OP. You don't punish someone into being a nicer, kinder, respectful, more helpful person. You spend lots of time engaging with them, redirecting them, modelling the behaviour you want from them, teaching them, explaining to them.

Punishments work much, much better if they are used extremely sparingly - but there are an amazing amount of people on here that just love to punish and punish and punish.

I find it very depressing.

Some kids are trickier than others. Some parents don’t have the time for their child to “eventually do it”. Some actions deserve consequences beyond natural ones. If your son hadn’t kicked the glass (so no natural consequence) but kept messing around , then what? If he’s kicking someone else’s chair , rather than yours how many chances would he get then? And so on.

You’re doing what works… for your kids, you and your setup. That’s what most parents try to do.

This Same with "the look", there has to be knowledge of what happens when they push it.

Well done to you, OP 🙌🏼👏🏻

Children are all different.

My eldest didn’t need consequences, a discussion was enough.

My youngest is ND high needs and there are consequences for poor behaviour, particularly hitting, such as reduced screen time.

One evening without screens and said behaviour is rarely ever seen again. A conversation would do fuck all, I’ve tried and I am not letting them become an adult who doesn’t understand you can’t hit people.

I would never physically hurt my children though, even when he has been physical in younger years.

Edit to add all behaviour he sees is good modelling but he socially mimics things he sees sometimes.

Children are different - genetically some care less about the opinions of others

family lives are also different

smacking to me is a serious failure but I also think that lack of discipline is also a serious failure

dont feel too smug till you have them all fledged as good humans. Angels at home are often nightmares in other places

Wow you really are unpleasant @TheFairCat

There’s one Mumsnet thing I find really jarring, almost to the point of spite: if a child commits some felony or other, and they happen to have a birthday on the near future, or happen to be attending someone else’s party, the Mumsnet reaction is always “CANCEL THE PARTY!!!!!”. And sometimes, when the parent has blurted out “I’ll cancel your party”, the Mumsnet reply is always “you’ve said it, you have to follow through, or they’ll never respect you again”. The other child’s party which will then be spoiled has no importance.

What does this achieve? What does a party planned well in advance have to do with the offence? What happens if there isn’t a party to cancel? What is this other than spite? A 13 year old who has a party cancelled in this way will probably remember it for ever; the alleged offence would quickly be forgotten.

The thing is, obviously everyone has their own opinion about the best ways to parent and of course all families and children are different.

But I’m not seeing anyone on this thread saying what I saw that shocked me in the other threads I mentioned. On those threads quite a few people were saying that they literally don’t know how to get their children to do or not do what they are asked. Many said that although they don’t think smacking is right they think that means parents have very few options and just have to let their children do what they want.

Contrary to what some posters seem to think, I’m not a particularly judgmental person (any more than any one is) and our experience of parenting has certainly NOT been easy. Perhaps that is why I had never given this subject much thought before. My hands were far too full to think much about how other people were or weren’t disciplining their children. So the answers on those threads really surprised me and I wanted to see if anyone else felt the same way.

I rarely do this on MN (cos it's so annoying), but honestly.....I don't think a Paddington Hard Stare would cut it with my 17 year old, who I would say is 'horribly normal'.