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Lucy Letby thread

1000 replies

Words · 14/06/2026 06:55

Starting this as don’t think we have a new one.

OP posts:
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25
PinkTonic · 20/07/2026 06:48

Firefly1987 · 19/07/2026 21:30

I couldn't get over how confident delusional him and that John Sweeney were that she'd be out within 2 years. If I was at that book launch (although I'm sure they vetted people to make sure they were on the right side) I'd have asked "has it ever crossed your mind she might actually be guilty"? Now I know it seems like an obvious question but it's as if he's never even considered it. And then cheering for Letby and sending her a special message about how she has their support, it's all just in such poor taste.

I'd have asked "has it ever crossed your mind she might actually be guilty"? Now I know it seems like an obvious question but it's as if he's never even considered it

Do you understand that most people who question the safety of the convictions started out assuming that she was? If you listened to what Morris said, he started out hearing the news and thinking no more of it. Sweeney not so much as he’d been involved in the Sally Clark case and saw specific red flags. Of course everyone who is now concerned has considered she might be guilty. A better question is have you and your ilk considered for a nanosecond that there may be some validity to the questions being asked? She has been convicted of murder by a method which even the prosecution expert witness has now said is not a method of murder.

You accuse others of hand waving yet you dismiss the legitimate questions of a plethora of independent serious professionals whilst whining about text messages and post it notes. You are very clearly not posting here as an interested bystander.

Dolphin37 · 20/07/2026 14:17

EyeLevelStick · 19/07/2026 08:56

Probably not. The cap wouldn’t be missing - it would be over the port. From the nurses’ point of view some bags have dangling replacement caps with the tamper evident snap off cap in place and some have the replacement cap over the port. The pharmacy-made bags and the bought in ones look extremely similar once outside their over-wrap. The nurses (including LL…) may not understand the significance of the port and its cover. Additions are never made on the wards so I expect they think the port is pharmacy’s business and provided there’s a cap (original or replacement) that’s fine.

The replacement cap is a bit fiddly to get on, if I recall, requiring pressure and dexterity. It seems… unlikely that someone’s first go at doing it, and doing it through a wrap, after covertly faffing about with vials and needles and syringes and their wrappers, would be a success.

(This is, of course, assuming that the bags were the ones I think they were.)

The pharmacy-made bags and the bought in ones look extremely similar once outside their over-wrap

They looked different enough that the prosecution deemed a "compare-and-contrast" exercise worthwhile:

SD: Yes. We have another bag so we can do a compare-and-contrast exercise. Can you confirm that's two identical --
IA: Yes, that's correct.
(Pause)
Mr Justice Goss: The first bag was the one that Mr Allen broke the cap off and the second one is as it's manufactured.
Can those be exhibited, please?

( https://www.reddit.com/r/LucyLetbyTrials/comments/1temlve/direct_examination_of_mr_ian_allen_regarding_iv/ )

The difference was on the port right next to the one nurses use. And while "The nurses (including LL…) may not understand the significance of the port and its cover", they don't need to understand the significance of a difference to note it, having seen it many times. Especially when there are only two kinds and they have to know which it is every time they hang one.

So while it's possible that both nurses hanging the bag missed both the port difference and the loose piece falling out, the chance that Letby would bet on that is one more improbability on top of all others.

kkloo · 20/07/2026 14:42

Firefly1987 · 19/07/2026 21:30

I couldn't get over how confident delusional him and that John Sweeney were that she'd be out within 2 years. If I was at that book launch (although I'm sure they vetted people to make sure they were on the right side) I'd have asked "has it ever crossed your mind she might actually be guilty"? Now I know it seems like an obvious question but it's as if he's never even considered it. And then cheering for Letby and sending her a special message about how she has their support, it's all just in such poor taste.

Well I certainly hope they kept people out who would ask such a stupid question and who are the type to make out that people just started to think maybe she hadn't done it cos she was white or blonde and didn't actually bother to look into the case against her.

It's 2 years or so into all this now so if people want to carry on with that nonsense he certainly shouldn't bother to engage with them.

On the other hand if anyone on the guilty side wants to discuss things with maturity and from a rational perspective I would hope and think that he would be up for it.

EyeLevelStick · 20/07/2026 15:34

Dolphin37 · 20/07/2026 14:17

The pharmacy-made bags and the bought in ones look extremely similar once outside their over-wrap

They looked different enough that the prosecution deemed a "compare-and-contrast" exercise worthwhile:

SD: Yes. We have another bag so we can do a compare-and-contrast exercise. Can you confirm that's two identical --
IA: Yes, that's correct.
(Pause)
Mr Justice Goss: The first bag was the one that Mr Allen broke the cap off and the second one is as it's manufactured.
Can those be exhibited, please?

( https://www.reddit.com/r/LucyLetbyTrials/comments/1temlve/direct_examination_of_mr_ian_allen_regarding_iv/ )

The difference was on the port right next to the one nurses use. And while "The nurses (including LL…) may not understand the significance of the port and its cover", they don't need to understand the significance of a difference to note it, having seen it many times. Especially when there are only two kinds and they have to know which it is every time they hang one.

So while it's possible that both nurses hanging the bag missed both the port difference and the loose piece falling out, the chance that Letby would bet on that is one more improbability on top of all others.

Especially when there are only two kinds and they have to know which it is every time they hang one.

I don’t think they do have to know this. They have to know if it’s a stock bag or a bespoke bag they are selecting, but I just don’t think think we can say that the nurses would have appreciated that on the COCH bags the replacement cap should be in place and on the bought in bags the snap off cap should be in place, with the bags themselves being so similar otherwise.

However, I think that is another reason to disbelieve that LL did anything. Would she have known what to do and how to do it? I mean we could make up far fetched stories, but there’s no evidence.

It seemed that the compare and contrast exercise was necessary so the jury could see close up how the snap off cap and the replacement cover worked, given the video was wrong.

Firefly1987 · 20/07/2026 20:43

Dolphin37 · 20/07/2026 14:17

The pharmacy-made bags and the bought in ones look extremely similar once outside their over-wrap

They looked different enough that the prosecution deemed a "compare-and-contrast" exercise worthwhile:

SD: Yes. We have another bag so we can do a compare-and-contrast exercise. Can you confirm that's two identical --
IA: Yes, that's correct.
(Pause)
Mr Justice Goss: The first bag was the one that Mr Allen broke the cap off and the second one is as it's manufactured.
Can those be exhibited, please?

( https://www.reddit.com/r/LucyLetbyTrials/comments/1temlve/direct_examination_of_mr_ian_allen_regarding_iv/ )

The difference was on the port right next to the one nurses use. And while "The nurses (including LL…) may not understand the significance of the port and its cover", they don't need to understand the significance of a difference to note it, having seen it many times. Especially when there are only two kinds and they have to know which it is every time they hang one.

So while it's possible that both nurses hanging the bag missed both the port difference and the loose piece falling out, the chance that Letby would bet on that is one more improbability on top of all others.

So while it's possible that both nurses hanging the bag missed both the port difference and the loose piece falling out, the chance that Letby would bet on that is one more improbability on top of all others.

Improbability? So now you're talking about statistics? Have you asked Gill or Hutton about this? Do we have all the data to even declare it an improbability? 🤔

MyrtleLion · 20/07/2026 23:39

PinkTonic · 20/07/2026 19:18

From the article

A serious system would welcome scrutiny. If Letby is guilty, rigorous re-examination should reinforce the conviction. If the evidence is sound, it should survive challenge. If the insulin findings are robust, they should withstand independent biochemical review. If the statistical pattern is meaningful, it should survive proper modelling. If the medical mechanisms are valid, they should withstand peer scrutiny.
The panic response to expert dissent is revealing because it suggests that, for some, the verdict is no longer a conclusion to be tested. It has become an identity to be defended.
That is dangerous.

Excellent reasoning.

Firefly1987 · 20/07/2026 23:50

@MyrtleLion isn't that literally the job of the CCRC? Who her case is already with. What more do people want?

The problem is a system could do all this, come out with the same exact result that she's guilty and people will still refuse to believe it.

Dolphin37 · 21/07/2026 00:46

Firefly1987 · 20/07/2026 20:43

So while it's possible that both nurses hanging the bag missed both the port difference and the loose piece falling out, the chance that Letby would bet on that is one more improbability on top of all others.

Improbability? So now you're talking about statistics? Have you asked Gill or Hutton about this? Do we have all the data to even declare it an improbability? 🤔

Do we have all the data to even declare it an improbability?

We don’t, thanks for catching that.

PinkTonic · 21/07/2026 08:08

MyrtleLion · 20/07/2026 23:39

From the article

A serious system would welcome scrutiny. If Letby is guilty, rigorous re-examination should reinforce the conviction. If the evidence is sound, it should survive challenge. If the insulin findings are robust, they should withstand independent biochemical review. If the statistical pattern is meaningful, it should survive proper modelling. If the medical mechanisms are valid, they should withstand peer scrutiny.
The panic response to expert dissent is revealing because it suggests that, for some, the verdict is no longer a conclusion to be tested. It has become an identity to be defended.
That is dangerous.

Excellent reasoning.

Yes I thought so. What do you think @Firefly1987 ? Why do you feel the need to mock and insult the questioners? Have you read the article? If you aren’t on X I expect it’s archived on the LL sub.

MyrtleLion · 21/07/2026 09:58

Firefly1987 · 20/07/2026 23:50

@MyrtleLion isn't that literally the job of the CCRC? Who her case is already with. What more do people want?

The problem is a system could do all this, come out with the same exact result that she's guilty and people will still refuse to believe it.

I think if the CCRC refer it to the Court of Appeal who then say there wasn’t a crime, or say the conviction wasn’t safe and it’s not in the public interest to have another trial, that you will still think she’s guilty.

I think if there is another trial and she is acquitted, you will still think she is guilty.

Dolphin37 · 21/07/2026 12:43

MyrtleLion · 21/07/2026 09:58

I think if the CCRC refer it to the Court of Appeal who then say there wasn’t a crime, or say the conviction wasn’t safe and it’s not in the public interest to have another trial, that you will still think she’s guilty.

I think if there is another trial and she is acquitted, you will still think she is guilty.

“The problem is a system could do all this, come out with the same exact result that she's guilty and people will still refuse to believe it.”

“I think if there is another trial and she is acquitted, you will still think she is guilty.”

Which are both fine. There is a duty to obey the courts in the practical sense of not breaking convicted people out of prison or keeping acquitted people in prison. There is no duty to think or believe what the courts say.

IonianNerveGrip · 21/07/2026 13:12

And just as well really. I doubt there's ever been an MOJ in history that didn't feature some Dunning Kruger dope continually repeating something about no smoke without fire. People often struggle to change their minds about stuff like this. There are some people still yarning on about Amanda Knox, others opposed the Birmingham Six being freed.

It isn't one of humanity's more positive traits, but it's probably always going to be with us.

PaterPower · 21/07/2026 13:23

The ‘system’ is notoriously bad at acknowledging and then rectifying its mistakes.

Ask Andrew Malkinson, (just the latest in a regrettable line), how difficult it is to be cleared. Even once DNA evidence emerges that conclusively proves your innocence.

kkloo · 21/07/2026 14:02

Firefly1987 · 20/07/2026 23:50

@MyrtleLion isn't that literally the job of the CCRC? Who her case is already with. What more do people want?

The problem is a system could do all this, come out with the same exact result that she's guilty and people will still refuse to believe it.

What more do people want?

"When multiple independent experts raise doubts, the correct response is not character assassination. It is engagement. When technical evidence is challenged, the answer is not “but the verdict"; it is “show the science.” When someone says the medical case has collapsed, the answer is not "You are naïve.” It is to demonstrate, clearly and calmly, why it has not."

Just that basically, for people to discuss it with a bit of maturity, for people to not go on like lunatics, making out that there's nothing to the concerns and that people just love baby killers.

kkloo · 21/07/2026 14:10

IonianNerveGrip · 21/07/2026 13:12

And just as well really. I doubt there's ever been an MOJ in history that didn't feature some Dunning Kruger dope continually repeating something about no smoke without fire. People often struggle to change their minds about stuff like this. There are some people still yarning on about Amanda Knox, others opposed the Birmingham Six being freed.

It isn't one of humanity's more positive traits, but it's probably always going to be with us.

There was certainly always people saying that about Amanda Knox, but it seemed at least to just be focused on Amanda Knox, I don't remember doubters, lawyers, journalists, authors etc getting completely torn apart and 'othered' like they have been in this case, but yet it seems since covid at least that a large amount of people are simply incapable of discussing or debating anything without othering and attacking.

Oftenaddled · 21/07/2026 15:44

May be of interest: Radio 4 are doing a programme this evening on maternity failings at the Countess of Chester and their implications for the Lucy Letby case. Even making that connection in the title seems pretty telling!

File on 4 at 8 tonight, repeated tomorrow

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m002z746

snowbear22 · 21/07/2026 16:38

This interview is interesting as it explores what it was like on the unit as the interviewee spent a long time there when his baby was born premature; what came across was that it was a very stressed unit that had not enough staff, poor hygene and that institutionally it didn't admit mistakes or shortcomings very readily.

This was my experience when I gave birth to my son and he ended up in a neo natal unit that has since shut down, my notes were 'missing' when I tried to request them etc. I was told that my son's bacterial infection in his stomach was not due to them sticking a tube down his throat, etc., there were good nurses trying their best but everything was quite dirty and run down and I felt like it was something from the Soviet union in the 1970's.

I do think that it is a possibility that Lucy took the fall for a failing unit where they had bacteria from sewage in the water, doctors who only made the rounds once a week as has been noted in other video's and the doctors who accused her -Dr. Stephen Brearey and Dr. Ravi Jayaram unwilling to examine their own practice and looking for a scapegoat for the poor performance.

Oftenaddled · 21/07/2026 20:44

Oftenaddled · 21/07/2026 15:44

May be of interest: Radio 4 are doing a programme this evening on maternity failings at the Countess of Chester and their implications for the Lucy Letby case. Even making that connection in the title seems pretty telling!

File on 4 at 8 tonight, repeated tomorrow

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m002z746

It's really quite a distressing episode. I would recommend a careful approach if you've been personally affected by loss of a child or pregnancy

PinkTonic · 21/07/2026 20:51

Oftenaddled · 21/07/2026 20:44

It's really quite a distressing episode. I would recommend a careful approach if you've been personally affected by loss of a child or pregnancy

A very difficult listen. I wonder how significant it is that the prosecution had the obstetric notes and refused to hand them over to the defence. Surely this is withholding evidence that could assist with her defence?

Oftenaddled · 21/07/2026 20:53

PinkTonic · 21/07/2026 20:51

A very difficult listen. I wonder how significant it is that the prosecution had the obstetric notes and refused to hand them over to the defence. Surely this is withholding evidence that could assist with her defence?

I thought Stephanie Heggarty did a great job with Dewi Evans, when he said the maternity notes wouldn't be needed because the information would be copied into the baby's medical records. She forced him to admit that that would be only a couple of paragraphs.

Firefly1987 · 21/07/2026 21:28

kkloo · 21/07/2026 14:02

What more do people want?

"When multiple independent experts raise doubts, the correct response is not character assassination. It is engagement. When technical evidence is challenged, the answer is not “but the verdict"; it is “show the science.” When someone says the medical case has collapsed, the answer is not "You are naïve.” It is to demonstrate, clearly and calmly, why it has not."

Just that basically, for people to discuss it with a bit of maturity, for people to not go on like lunatics, making out that there's nothing to the concerns and that people just love baby killers.

Or the people convinced of her innocence could just wait until the CCRC have come to a decision in case they're wrong and inadvertently supporting a baby killer.

PinkTonic · 21/07/2026 21:30

Firefly1987 · 21/07/2026 21:28

Or the people convinced of her innocence could just wait until the CCRC have come to a decision in case they're wrong and inadvertently supporting a baby killer.

If they’re wrong they’re wrong. What difference does it make to you?

Firefly1987 · 21/07/2026 21:33

@PinkTonic personally? Nothing. But you'd think anyone with any empathy wouldn't want to be heaping on more upset for the parents.

Oftenaddled · 21/07/2026 21:46

Firefly1987 · 21/07/2026 21:33

@PinkTonic personally? Nothing. But you'd think anyone with any empathy wouldn't want to be heaping on more upset for the parents.

At the same time, if Lucy Letby is innocent, this public support is surely some comfort to her and her loved ones. So this argument I think reminds us all to be careful and respectful, but it cuts both ways.

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