To think is unreasonable to request GCSE for certain jobs?

[Twinkletwinklittlestar]

Do all jobs really request GCSE in the UK? There is huge emphasis on them in schools so trying to understand. Eg: chefs, clothing shop assistants, stock rooms, deliveries, waitresses, catering, etc.

I am a foreigner, didn’t do GCSE, got jobs easily, Levis never asked me for GCSE. Then studied ACCA and I don’t think they asked for this either,

Is really further education and jobs unavailable for people who didn’t do GCSE or fail them?

They don’t achieve it because it’s a bell curve. The bottom third are destined to fail however hard they try. It’s a disgusting system.

I totally respect your viewpoint here, in many ways I think you’re right - but where Blair was onto something was in his attempt to not get left behind. Ireland has sent over 70 per cent of its population into level 4 (not always academic uni) education, and most of Europe was heading for 50 percent long before us. He didn’t want us to have a population massively under educated/trained compared to our European neighbours.

But it doesnt work very well. First they are complaining about the people who turn up to work that they have filtered based on having these qualifications. When I was younger it was very common to do a written test to get a job. Maybe they need to move away from those situational analysis or psychometric tests and go back to a conversation and write a letter to a client test.

Second, the absence of having these specific qualifications at grade 4 which is what they generally mean, doesnt mean you didnt turn up diligently to school or that you cant read or write enough to do the job in question. Its obviously very job dependent.

It goes back to being very hard to evidence what you can do if the gcse format doesnt work for you for some reason.

Most people hear grade 1,2 or 3 at gcse and have no idea what this means in terms of what a pupil can do. Just that they didnt get a standard pass so clearly cant read or write even though year 6 children can read and write. They read stuff like Wonder and Holes.

It does show a basic life level of literacy and numeracy which is needed to perform well in many roles.

Yes, I can see the point of that. It's a modern necessity to have a well-trained workforce/population. I suppose what I'm saying is: training and vocational qualifications are great, they're necessary and most young people are enthusiastic about them in a way they're not about school or academic work if they're not suited to that.

But university degrees are a different matter! Degrees necessitate lots of reading, independent study, research and essay writing. All relevant skills for some careers, but absolutely not what the majority of young people enjoy or find easy. At one time there were degrees offered in golf course management and football studies. What a con - I feel for those youngsters who got into debt doing degrees in these subjects. My BIL came back from the barbers very sad for a young lad who was brushing up hair and folding towels who'd got a degree in football studies and had been unable to find a job....what a cruel con. If you want to work in football management you need business studies, accountancy or an HR qualification, surely?

Goodness knows - there are many posts on MN with parents worrying about how their student offspring are going to cope with essay structure and independent study.

We can provide the training for good jobs without making kids get into debt and struggle to write essays for 3 years. (And I speak as an ex-English teacher!!).

It doesn't show basic literacy and numeracy. The exams have 1 or 2 questions each on a wide range of maths subjects. Less academic children would be better focusing on fewer, relevant skills and getting them securely. Like in the Functional skills syllabus.

A lot of jobs say GCSE, GCSE equivalent or you must pass a verbal and numerical test as part of the application process

It's common for many jobs to expect a minimum of maths and English but not all jobs will require it.

They suggest a very low level of literacy and numeracy have been obtained. I think the vast majority of oriole educated here should manage 2 C’s. Overseas equivalents fine. I have no problem expecting that.

Well I don't disagree with that but if they get level 2, it is considered equivalent to grade 4 GCSE anyway. The foundation maths GCSE isn't that different to Functional skills anyway but functional skills actually requires more reading as the questions are usually scenario based. Functional English however is probably a lot easier than GCSE especially if doing literature which isn't touched on in FS

But as someone pointed out a certain percentage have to fail

FS English is Language not Lit.
It is more straightforward than Lang GCSE but much more useful imo.
Interestingly you have to pass the Speaking and Listening section which you don't have to for the GCSE.
Spelling is a higher proportion of the writing marks.
But no comprehension on a newspaper from 1900, nor a creative writing section. But I don't hold that as much loss.

I work in waste and cleansing and we don’t ask for any qualifications at all for our unskilled manual jobs

a young lad who was brushing up hair and folding towels who'd got a degree in football studies and had been unable to find a job....what a cruel con. If you want to work in football management you need business studies, accountancy or an HR qualification, surely?

What was the syllabus? I'd expect modules on all those things, and maybe anatomy, history of the game, rules of the game, loads of varied stuff.

Football management? What exactly is that?? I thought football managers were ex players and coaches, people who had years of experience in the game at a practical level.

On the other hand, people like Karen Brady work in the business part of the sport. I don't think she has a degree. She does have business acumen though. I would imagine a degree which included business, finance and marketing would be needed.

Business management takes years of slogging away getting to grips with a business. The knowledge gained should be transferable to any business.

I know someone who is doing a politics degree. They think that they are going to leave university and become a government advisor. I'm nor so sure about that.

HarshbutTrue2 · Today 05:11
Football management? What exactly is that?? I thought football managers were ex players and coaches, people who had years of experience in the game at a practical level.

Sorry - my bad!

By football management I did mean the business side of it - not the sports management which, as you say, is done by an ex-player. The sort of thing Karen Brady did/does.

The boy had done a football studies degree, which wasn't business-focused, apparently. Great fun for 3 years but of no practical use in getting a job.

I know someone who is doing a politics degree. They think that they are going to leave university and become a government advisor. I'm nor so sure about that.

It's really upsetting that so many youngsters are being misguided and their naivety encouraged. You need a first in PPE from Oxbridge, most likely to have a chance of that role.

I remember 2 non-academic sixth formers asking me for help with their personal statements and several were applying to study forensic science at small universities. Their main motivation was having watched a lot of TV detective shows, they wrote.

It wasn't my place to interfere with their ambitions, but I felt for them. They really thought they were going to walk into an exciting Silent Witness scenario. They had no science beyond a not very strong GCSE. All I felt I could do was to get them to research the job, its requirements and the employment record of the universities.

No-one wants to rain on young people's parades, but there's a balance between smashing their dreams and preventing them wasting money, time and effort on something which is worse than useless.

I read an article the other day which was from a CEO of a compnay, set up and ran himself from nothing dont know which one).

He and his team were discussing education requirements and he had queried why they were insisting on GCSEs. He pointed out that he was not 'educated enough' to be even given an interview for their lowest entry job.

He felt they were missing out on people who would appreciate a job, could learn on the job and move up through the ranks, being a positive member of staff.

@CoffeeCantata I too have sat through UCAS applications. I'm certain my college wanted to just tick a box for future destinations. I think we sent over 90% of our A level students to University.

I had previously worked in the real world before becoming a teacher. I was gobsmacked to hear a 26 year old teacher giving career advice. I remember her advising a student to become an actuary because the girl was aiming for a C in maths. The teacher didn't actually know what an actuary was. I had to take her to one side and explain what an actuary is and how usually only the brightest and best are accepted. Un-deterred, she then advised the student to become an accountant. The student replied that they weren't interested in maths.

I find the amount of student debt very upsetting. Kids are going to university without a thought about fees. Then, in their late 20s, suddenly find they owe 60k and they cannot reduce it.

Luckily, more savvy students are studying at local universities in order to reduce the cost. Plus, degree apprenticeships are very useful. However, back to topic, apprenticeship providers usually look for good academic results.