To think is unreasonable to request GCSE for certain jobs?

[Twinkletwinklittlestar]

Do all jobs really request GCSE in the UK? There is huge emphasis on them in schools so trying to understand. Eg: chefs, clothing shop assistants, stock rooms, deliveries, waitresses, catering, etc.

I am a foreigner, didn’t do GCSE, got jobs easily, Levis never asked me for GCSE. Then studied ACCA and I don’t think they asked for this either,

Is really further education and jobs unavailable for people who didn’t do GCSE or fail them?

The lowest GCSE pass represents a very basic level of achievement in say, English and Maths. I think, in 2026, you'd need at least a pass in these subjects to be able to do even the most menial job.

I get it that, in days gone by, manual skills might have been more important but now people need to be able to read and understand well, to speak and communicate confidently and use IT efficiently.

Also, unless a person has learning difficulties, not attaining the most basic GCSE pass in the core subjects would be a concern for employers. What on earth have you been doing in education for the last 10+ years?

Having said that, the GCSE as a qualification leaves a lot to be desired - but it's what we've got at the moment, so....

That is sad, such a high percentage so there is definitely something wrong with the education system.

There used to be a brilliant system which worked well until ideology took over.

Academic children did O levels and the less academic, more practically-minded, did CSEs. These exams and syllabuses were more suited to the different needs and different career requirements of academic and non-academic children. And if you got a Grade 1 CSE, it was equivalent to an O level pass. At my grammar school in the 70s we all did a mixture of the two, depending on our aptitude in different subjects.

But I remember sitting in in a meeting long ago where an ideologue insisted that there must be no differentiation and the GCSE was an exam which would suit everyone. Hmmm. Sure enough, within a very short time they'd created Foundation GCSEs (I think they were called) for the less academically able. So another two-tier system. My daughter did quite a lot of these.

Oh, and because the GCSEs didn't stretch the really academically able, they then had to bring in A* grades etc etc.

They system wasn't even broke, and has been well and truly messed up.

It's the hypocrisy I can't stand!

I think is very silly to request them if you have experience, can perform in an interview and they can also do an assessment to check you have the skills required

@CoffeeCantata have a word with Michael Gove - he decided to change what wasn't broken. Idiot.

You’ll have an equivalent so show that. But most businesses do not want employees who could let even get a basic pass in maths and English unless there was a very good reason.

My DH didn’t pass any GCSEs. A mix between parental neglect and undiagnosed dyslexia and just being labelled as thick. He put some realistic grades on his CV and has a job in maintenance at a college. Can’t really apply for anything else though but the college haven’t ever actually asked for the certificates. It’s such a shame though as he has such potential and there are things he would love to do. He’s incredibly intelligent too but just not in a traditional way.

Can you tell me why a store assistant for exsmple needs to do be able to do all rhe abstract concepts of maths required for a grade 4 maths?

Its ia ridiculous situation
Could he go back to college as an adult learner and do funtional skills maths and English?

CSEs and O levels were abolished in 1987 and replaced with GCSEs. Grammar schools were abolished steadily across the 60s and 70s on the mistaken belief they were elitist and excluding children.

In truth, the grammar schools were excellent at what they did and, since 1944 when grammar school education became universally state funded, had done more than perhaps any single policy to lift bright children from poor backgrounds out of poverty and into graduate professions.

The real problem was underfunding in secondary moderns (non-selective schools). Instead of recognising that the demands of secondary modern education were more expensive than traditional grammar schooling and required more money per pupil, they effectively forced all children to participate in a diluted grammar school style of education in which they have to spend their days sitting still looking at a board.

I profoundly disagree with many of the secondary school curriculum changes Gove introduced. In particular, I’m fed up with education ministers making changes for all children based in what would suit them personally. But he was essentially tweaking a system that had already disenfranchised a third of children a generation earlier.

Depends on the age of who I'm employing but if I've got a younger candidate, then I do expect a maths and English GCSE pass for retail work. They need to be able to work out change, discounts and product prices correctly (often on the spot), and there is written communication with customers so they need to know how to spell and use punctuation.

You'd be amazed how many have passed both of those GCSEs that still can't do those things, so I look for a higher grade if it is between more than one candidate. I've seen many who have fumbled and been embarrassed in front of customers when they've pressed something wrong on the till and they have to manually work out the change they are giving and they can't do it without a calculator.

This is the long shadow of a harmful policy. It makes me so cross.

My DH has no GCSEs either, he left school without sitting his exams. He's a security engineer now, but also a qualified mortgage adviser and gas engineer. Not having GCSEs shouldn't stop him from doing something else if he wants to.

But in order to shortlist someone for interview and assessment you have to have some criteria and a basic level of numerical and English skills can be determined through someone's GCSE grades on their CV. As other people have said, the equivalent must surely be standard in other countries too - it's not the GSCEs per se that are significant, it's the basic level of education.

Well actually my son has GCSE grade 3 in Maths and Functional skills Level 1 in English. Those are both pass grades. But because they aren't the magical "Grade 4" he's forced to keep resitting (EHCP). I spoke to someone recently whose DS is 24 with EHCP and cant go to agricultural college to do a vocational course which will suit him down to the ground, because of the resits.

I think this system is responsible for creating a large proportion of the NEETs. There is literally no non academic pathway into work.

I think the National Curriculum and league tables etc haven't helped. When I went into 6th form (late '80s) a lot of lower ability girls (single sex school - don't know what happened at the boys' school,) stayed on a year (wecoukd leave at 16,) and did courses in functional maths and functional literacy. I think there were some other more vocational options, too, like City & Guilds. But they didn't count for league tables, so I think thry disappeared some time in the '90s.

I used to teach teens with autism.

The level of maths needed to get a grade 4 is not very abstract. There’s only a very small amount of algebra on the lower grades and it’s of the level of

if

x plus 3 equals 7 what is x?

the majority of the questions at those grades are adding subtracting multiplying and dividing with either money, decimals, or measures (eg cm and metres).

the lad I taught got a grade 1. He got a job a Tesco, but Tesco insist that all employees are trained for multiple roles so they can switch in the store.

he could do shelf stacking and pushing the trolleys around the car park but couldn’t learn to use the tills.

so they put him permanently on car park duty which he hated.

he moved to McDonald’s who made reasonable adjustments and he was on taking food out and tidy up team,

he lives in the same village as me now as I catch up with him sometimes.

he worked at McDonald’s for a few years then they got a new manager who sacked a lot of the “old” employees. He went to tribunal and got compensation but no job back.

Well it depends on the roles. We’re not aiming for Levi’s, apprenticeships and traineeships into career paths often have a minimum requirement.

My son struggles with maths, we’re putting in additional support to try to ensure he leaves with a 5 to keep his options as open as possible.

Grammar schools were elitist though - 11 was too young to decide a child’s future. I have 2 family members who failed their 11 plus yet went on to higher education later (which was not easy to do). My older relatives also think there was an issue of grammar school places not being fairly distributed across the country (they lived in an industrial area where there were apparently fewer places). Secondary modern education for girls apparently involved a lot of cooking (as training to be a housewife).

I actually agree with you about the present problems, but we shouldn’t romanticise the past. Where I live there are problems with both the resits (as you mention) & that there isn’t a clear pathway for children if they fall behind in education due to ill-health - that’s a problem post-COVID given the issues with child physical & mental health.

You can get a 4 without the abstract stuff. You do need some basic numeracy though.

It’s not really about need, but about preference.

Companies have more than enough applicants for these sort of jobs so can afford to apply a basic filter that ensures they only see staff with at least a basic competence in reading and counting.

Thsts fsir enough but most of that is mental arithmatic taught in primary schools
The GCSE syllabus covers so much more stuff that most people wont ever use

Agsin the maths syllabus goes way beyond counting its covers loads of abstract concepts most peoole will never use
So basically we are saying people are written off if they struggle to work out Angles , circumfrences etc

If you have a fair system that isn’t corrupted, enough spaces for all the children who would benefit, the ability to swap systems at aged 13/14 and an alternative that is highly regarded in itself, then 11 is not too young.

Instead, we had centuries-old grammar schools with traditions of excellence in that style of education verses dumping grounds for everyone else. There were too few grammar school places to meet the new levels of demand, so rather than create more and invest in secondary moderns for the rest, they destroyed the goose that laid the golden egg.

Any job that is asking for 5 GCSEs including English and Maths at grade 4 or more - which most jobs do - is using this as a shorthand for "are you basically literate and numerate? Can you read and write fluently and understand what you read properly such that you can follow written instructions? Are your maths skills sufficient that you can keep track of any number-related tasks like stock taking, scheduling and budgeting? Is your general intelligence sufficient that in 3 other topics of your choice you can learn and retain some basic information?"

The maths and english syllabus taught in schools covers a lot of topics some of which are quite advanced but you only need to grapple with the difficult stuff if you want a grade 6 or more. The level of numeracy needed for a grade 4 pass is pretty low and someone who can't manage that can't be trusted to do any task at all involving numbers.

If you are educated overseas you don't need to actually take the GCSE exams, you just need some kind of documentation about the level of schooling you received in your home country. Your national embassy may be able to help with certifying that whatever education level you have can be treated as meeting the minimum standard. If you don't have any such education then adult FE colleges will offer courses. Someone in my extended family grew up in South Africa and ran away from home at 14 and eventually ended up in the UK. Did college courses in her 40s to get to the minimum standard and has a great career now in Early Years Childcare.