To think is unreasonable to request GCSE for certain jobs?

[Twinkletwinklittlestar]

Do all jobs really request GCSE in the UK? There is huge emphasis on them in schools so trying to understand. Eg: chefs, clothing shop assistants, stock rooms, deliveries, waitresses, catering, etc.

I am a foreigner, didn’t do GCSE, got jobs easily, Levis never asked me for GCSE. Then studied ACCA and I don’t think they asked for this either,

Is really further education and jobs unavailable for people who didn’t do GCSE or fail them?

Why are you asking, for you or for a child you have in school?

If you were educated overseas I expect they’d ask equivalent grades, but if you have work experience that would supersede it, you’d be ok.

As for employers asking people coming out of school, yes it’s completely normal and surely the same in other countries with standardised tests. How else would they get a balanced picture of who they’re employing?

ETA of course opportunities are available to people who fail them but the pass mark sets a basic level of expectation for the country, most importantly in maths and English. If you don’t have those then yes it’s difficult as you’re not considered to have the basic skills needed for a basic job.

I don’t have GCSE’s. I’m old and did O Levels. I just write GCSE equivalent.

Surely employers are looking for some level of education.

GCSE or equivalent is the bare minimum, if someone didn’t have at least a couple even really low grades I’d be surprised if they could get a job.

english and maths is important for many roles, not all i agree

Not all jobs.

Relevant work experience can overcome things.

But without maths and English (or level 2 functional skills) you are certainly disadvantaged.

You listed a load of jobs. Many of those require a certain level of literacy and numeracy. Employers use the GCSE as a basic capability measure (even though a lower level would often be sufficient in reality).

(Our local dog day care wants Level 3 qualifications, which is A levels or equivalent).

Around 30% of children sitting Maths and English GCSE don’t achieve a 4 in both.
That’s a very large number of people to consider as not having the skills for a basic job.
In reality there are varied post 16 options for children without GCSE passes but something is going badly wrong that so many children don’t meet what is widely perceived as a minimum standard.

Easiest way is to lie on your CV. They don’t ask for GCSE certificates in jobs like this.

In theory yes almost all jobs these days for a school leaver want GSCE Maths and English. Which considering they move the grade boundaries every year to ensure around 30% of kids will always fail (getting a 3 or below) it’s crazy.

Once they have had their first job it becomes less important and the further away from 16 you get the less and less it’s asked for.

GCSE equivalent maths and English is required for most jobs. Just has to be equivalent though, level 2.

Unfortunately, government funding rules tends to mean kids resit GCSE in college rather than being put through level 2 functional skills.

In England you need to pass Maths and English GCSEs for many education abd training opportunities that come later. If you want to study specific A levels (eg Physics) they may require a minimum of grade 6 in that too.

GCSEs are essentially school leaving certificates because 16-18 year olds specialise and drop core subjects and may even enter a training placement instead of continuing their school education.

It’s not necessary to have GCSEs if you have some sort of school leaving certificate from another country that proves your proficiency in Maths.

You wouldn't have become ACCA qualified without the equivalent of maths & English, as the exams are a L7 accountancy qualification. Do you think that the jobs listed don't require basic literacy and numeracy?

So 30% of young people won't be viewed as capable of a basic job? That seems a shame - I'm sure some of them have more common sense than some of the ones who passed.
Would be different if it was a system where if you could achieve certain outcomes, you'd pass

I think there should probably be better (or more easily available) alternatives for those who can not access formal exams/qualifications to show competency (its not my area so i dont really know how available they are) but its not that all those jobs you mentioned require GCSE level knowledge, per se.

It's more that it shows an ability to commit to something, soft skills like turning up to school every day, an ability and willingness to apply yourself and revise, valuing learning and education and a willingness and ability to learn new things and take it seriously.

Once they have had their first job it becomes less important and the further away from 16 you get the less and less it’s asked for.

Depends what you do. I have to show my GCSE certificates at every job interview and I'm in my 50s!

I think they do now, or at least they check. When I worked (1998-2006) they requested 5 a-c including maths and English which I didn’t have so I just said I did, and tried my best. They never knew.

Last year more than 40% failed Maths GCSE. The numbers are almost as high for English Language. Many pass the following year, but they often can’t progress to sixth form courses without them, so they get stuck. You can spend an extra year in sixth form, but you can’t stay indefinitely. I’d love to redesign 14-16 education for the c.30% failing Maths and English GCSEs. I’ve spent a lot of my career thinking about this issue.

I agree, the system where 30% of school leavers are set to "fail" by not getting grade 4 maths/English is broken. It doesn't always mean they have zero literacy or number skills or couldn't learn what they need in work. Often just means they couldn't cope with GCSE syllabus and should have had the opportunity to do a simpler functional qualification as a back up.

I think employers are becoming more demanding about certificates. I was asked for them for the first time quite recently. I think a degree etc used to almost displace them. I had to go rummaging around in my parents’ attic.

It doesn’t need to be GCSE’s but generally some level of qualifications are wanted and gcse is probably the most common ones that everyone has

Functional skills can be part of a training course, such as Level 1 hospitality.

@Twinkletwinklittlestar some jobs can be accessed via training courses, food hygiene etc or NVQ. If a young person can't follow the curriculum, then there are still pathways. Places like Weatherspoons get slated on here, but they do on the job training.
Unfortunately there aren't as many of the starter jobs that used to be around, pot washing, glass collecting. It does depend on were you live, there's a massive discrepancy in the opportunities available, area to area. We have a organisation called Family and Community Education (FACE) which do free certificated courses, which can get you into work.

No, we don’t have any requirement at my work for GCSEs or A-Levels. We generally have a requirement for a good degree but nothing below that.

Its a big barrier but some industries are more forgiving that others and once a bit of experience is had they get less relevant. One if the big issues recently has been the FE funding agreement which meant kids trying to access vocational courses or apprentiship were held back from passing if they didnt have maths and english but the chance to do functional skills instead was offered too late. They have adjusted this a little bit now.

This is my big bugbear. If children spend most hours of most days being told they are failing, then the subliminal messaging is that they are incapable and a waste of space. That’s not a good foundation from which to expect them to go out into the world and become productive adults.

It can be tackled without diluting the demands for achieving top grades. There are already different exams for kids aiming for a 9 verses a maximum of a grade 5. In brief, the alternative approach I have designed (but have no one to share it with to make it happen) is modular, so that only the failed module needs to be retaken. It also copies the American transcript system where passing also depends on reasonable levels of attendance and participation in lessons and completion of tasks set. This way, kids can experience progress through the course instead of having high stakes terminal exams. It would teach important life skills regarding reliability too.

I wish people realised they could sit functional skills independently.

I have a PhD (and an MSc and BSc) and I didn’t do GCSEs or A levels (or whatever they would have been back then) as I grew up outside the UK. I am still asked for them and it makes me laugh. Like I have a PhD and 20 years work experience. Do you really care how I did in maths at 16? They do apparently. 😂 I just put my home country equivalent and marks, which are meaningless in the UK, but it fills the box.