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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to stop always hosting visits when my mum refuses help?

100 replies

CopperFern · Today 11:30

My mother lives half a mile away from me. We see her at least every other week. My kids (5 and 2) love her and she clearly loves them back.

We’re not allowed in her home, because it’s too messy and dirty. My youngest has never been to her house and my oldest was last there maybe 2.5 years ago and is now starting to ask why we can’t visit.

Mum’s been retired for a year and keeps saying she’s going to “sanitise” her house and get it in order, but thus far I think if anything it’s got worse since she retired. Last year she was threatened a fine by the council for the state of her (tiny) yard, which i found out via my sibling.

She has the money to hire cleaners, should she choose to. My siblings and I have offered to help her clean (as we have in the past). All we get is “I’ll get around to it, stop nagging me”.

AIBU to put my foot down and say we can’t always meet at my house?

OP posts:
Skybluepinky · Today 16:16

She obviously has mh issues and you think isolation is the answer!

worldsgonemadnow · Today 16:18

Corvidsarethebest · Today 15:00

OP, I think people are focusing on the wrong thing here, that you are getting on to her about the house, she's a hoarder plus has MH and so you aren't 'understanding her'. In fact, what you are experiencing is the frustration and exhaustion of coping with someone with quite difficult MH issues and quite a difficult personality. I think it's fine to start to see that you give a lot, she comes a lot and she is passive aggressive and does nothing to help when she does- so effectively she's like your child and you are the mother in this situation and not in a good way!

I would get the book 'Let Them' by Mel Robbins and read it cover to cover.

I would also get some support for your own MH (friends, therapy, online chat group, somewhere to offload) as being entangled with someone with what sounds like depression, hoarding and maybe other issues is very draining for you. You get burned out and stop being sympathetic.

I hope you find a way to reset the boundaries so that some of the negativity and difficulties don't all come to your door, and that you can see your mum is ill and not being awkward on purpose- but, and this is important, that doesn't mean you have to do everything her way or how she wants- you and your little family and your own capacity are important too. Get the book.

100% this!

ItsNotMeEither · Today 16:21

OP, my mum was a hoarder. She showed signs of it when I was a child, but the older she got, the worse it got.

When I was a child there would be a huge clean up once a year and she maintained that for months, then everything would build up again.

She was born in 1930, right at the very end of the Great Depression. She was a young teen for the Second World War, she literally grew up with the idea of never throwing out anything that could be useful (even if to everyone else, these items looked like junk). She never kept actual rubbish thank goodness. She still washed her dishes and put out the rubbish, still vacuumed what could be seen of her floors and cleaned the bathroom. But, she didn't use the bath, so that was piled past my height with stuff. She no longer slept in any of her three bedrooms, because they were full of stuff (she slept in her lounge room).

When I told her I was pregnant with my first child she couldn't have been happier. Vowed she was going to clean her place and make a room where the baby could sleep when they visited. That never happened. Not one of my children ever spent a single day at Grandma's place.

She had just reached a place where she couldn't do it. She also wouldn't be helped. It wasn't even about accepting the help, it was that she just couldn't part with any of the stuff. It had become a full on mental health issue. As she aged, I know people judged us for not just going in and doing it, but she would cry and yell if you even tried.

When she passed away, I was working full time. It took my six months of going every Saturday at 7am with one of my then adult children and sorting stuff. At lunch time the adult child would leave with a van full of stuff to either donate or take to the dump. Then my husband and another adult child would come and help me for the afternoon, until 7pm.

From one bag, box or cupboard to the next, I never knew what I was going to find. Maybe old clothes, maybe old school work belonging to my own children. She would go through my rubbish bins every week to remove anything she thought I shouldn't throw out. I found two shoe boxes of ping pong balls, why? No idea. I found 100 roll on deodorant containers, all in pieces and completely washed out, just in case we ever wanted to put sun screen in them so the kids could take them to school. Just an astounding array of items.

You can't change your mother, unless she gets some counselling to help her deal with the underlying issues she has. You mum probably isn't the same as mine, but there will be something underlying this issue, even if it's a 'simple' as depression.

Now you have to decide how you will handle it. If I had decided things had to be more even for her to have a relationship with her grandchildren, then there would have been no relationship at all.

It was sad that my kids never got to spend any time at Grandma's house, but in the end, it was mum that missed out, not the kids, because the relationship took place at other venues or at our place. Mum died 6 years ago and they all have very fond memories of her. She and I knew how to press all of each other's buttons, but despite the issues in our relationship, many caused by all of the stuff, she was loved and I'm glad we didn't cut down on visits or her seeing the kids for something that she ultimately really couldn't control.

I have no doubt about how much she adored her grandchildren, despite not having any space at all for them inside her home.

IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos · Today 16:22

CopperFern · Today 15:07

There’s an additional layer to this which is that I had a very high risk pregnancy with my youngest and was hospitalised several times, and for the week leading up to the delivery I had asked my mum to be ready to come over to be with my oldest in case I needed to go in again, which she agreed to do.

Three days before my planned (again, very high risk) Caesarian my sister called me to tell me mum wanted to celebrate the start of her holidays by having a margarita or two so she wouldn’t be able to come over in case we needed her to. She didn’t want to tell me because I would “get upset” and then got angry with my sister for “ratting her out”. I’m honestly not sure what she wanted me to do in case we’d needed a sitter, I guess have my partner miss the birth? Luckily my sister stepped up (because I did need to go in early, by ambulance, in the middle of the night - not that night, but might as well have been).

After, when I was barely out of hospital and recovering from the delivery (during which I needed massive blood transfusions and almost died) she fell over some rubbish in her hall in the middle of the night and got hurt and I had to go straight from a postnatal check (that I wasn’t allowed to drive myself to, meaning not only did my newborn have to come along, so did my partner and our older child) to the pharmacy to pick up her prescription painkillers and bring them to her.

When I tried to bring up to her much later that I was very hurt by her choices in connection with the birth of my baby she thought I meant the inconvenience of having to go to the pharmacy. That i was upset that she valued her marg over my and my baby’s wellbeing never crossed her mind.

I guess maybe i should have lead with this. I don’t know. I don’t even know if I’m unreasonable to have asked her that. Probably I am, can’t wait for someone to call me a bi*ch over it!

Edited

I get this feeling. My mum once told me she couldn't come to an event for my child because my sister needed her to look after her dog, for something that came up after our plans, and she couldn't bear to let down her daughter...

I think there's more to it that not being able to visit her at home. I think you feel unimportant to your mum, and that's really hard to get past.

TheignT · Today 16:28

CopperFern · Today 12:23

Yes, all family events are always at my house (including her birthday). All Sunday dinners are at my house. All “come over and see the kids” are at my house. She doesn’t much like doing stuff outdoors either so basically if I want the kids to see their grandma that means I will have to “let them run off steam” (her words) so they’re not “too rowdy” when she comes around in the afternoon (because she doesn’t want to get up “early” to come by in the morning). I cook, I clean, she sits on her bum and leaves right when it’s time for the kids to have their bath and for me to tidy up after them.

I have offered to help. I’ve cleaned her house, I’ve come over to put up (and take down) her Xmas decorations, I’ve cleaned her yard, I’ve mopped her floors, I’ve tried to set up taking broken furniture to the dump, I’ve sent her the names of cleaners, I’ve offered to go with her to showings for smaller flats that are more easy to look after. She’s not interested. I’ve cried, I’ve begged her, I’ve told her I’m worried, that I hate the idea of her living in filth, how would she have felt about her parents in that state, etc etc. nothing has an effect.

I do want my kids to see her, obviously, or I wouldn’t even care. I’m just heartbroken at trying to explain to my 5yo that yes grandma does have a garden you could play in (we live in a flat so that plays into it in summer) but we’re not welcome there. The kids don’t understand, and I feel drained. I don’t even want her to babysit (she’s never had them overnight, just a few hours here and there - less than 10 times in 5 years and only once since the youngest was born), I just wish we could maybe just pop round for a glass of squash and let the kids run around her yard for an afternoon.

oh well.

You don't really tell a five year old he's not welcome at his granny's house do you? You know there is a reason you can't take them there, it isn't that they aren't welcome.

You are upset with her but don't put that on a child.

worldsgonemadnow · Today 16:30

@CopperFern, I don't think you are being unreasonable at all. I'm not sure the stare of your mums house is the core problem though. From what you've said, her alcoholism is likely the big issue and everything else from the state of her house to her brutal selfishness are all symptoms of that.

Unfortunately addiction does make the addict selfish, reckless and without consideration for others. And youll already know the only person who can change the addicts situation is the addict themselves.

What I hear from you isn't just moaning about her house etc. I hear hurt, feelings of being unimportant to her, sadness that your family home, full of lovely childhood memories is completely inaccessible to you and your children. In addition there's very likely fear that you're going to end up as her carer, feelings of helplessness that there's not a damn thing you can do about any of it.

Are you able to access any local support aimed at families of alcohol/drug dependent family members. I think that might be helpful in terms of you coming to terms with the situation you find yourself in, and in making boundaries which protect yourself, your children and husband.

I also agree that reading the Let Them book by Mel Robbins could also be helpful.

Sending you love and strength to do what you need to do to protect your own health and wellbeing in this.

lebin · Today 16:34

TheignT · Today 16:28

You don't really tell a five year old he's not welcome at his granny's house do you? You know there is a reason you can't take them there, it isn't that they aren't welcome.

You are upset with her but don't put that on a child.

Agree with this! My grandmother was an alcoholic and unpredictable. I went to her house once in my whole life, never questioned it or thought it was abnormal because it was all I knew and my parents didn’t make a thing of it (despite being at my other grandads every weekend). Sometimes I had to go upstairs when she turned up unannounced, but again I never questioned it and my parents very much shielded me from the truth. She passed when I was 7, I don’t think I knew the truth until my late teens!

CopperFern · Today 16:41

Skybluepinky · Today 16:16

She obviously has mh issues and you think isolation is the answer!

I don’t want to isolate her!! I’m just tired of always having to stay in my flat for my kids to have a relationship with their grandmother. Would be easiest to be at her house/yard sometimes but I’d be happy if she asked if we wanted to go out for brunch or to the park or a museum or whatever. But it’s ALWAYS, every time, her bum on my couch and me waitering on her.

OP posts:
CopperFern · Today 16:44

TheignT · Today 16:28

You don't really tell a five year old he's not welcome at his granny's house do you? You know there is a reason you can't take them there, it isn't that they aren't welcome.

You are upset with her but don't put that on a child.

Of course I didn’t phrase it like that, but how exactly am I supposed to handle it? Should I lie to them? Cover for her? I don’t know. Any advice is welcome.

OP posts:
sontamol · Today 16:47

I get it. It's not really about her house and lack of welcome there, it's her lack of consideration and thought for you as her daughter and a person. That's very tough to get your head around.

Without wishing to sound facetious, wouldn't it be great if she swapped her house with garden for your flat!

I hope you find a solution, I'm not qualified enough to give you one, but I empathise with all the thoughts swirling around your head about her.

Pipsquiggle · Today 16:54

Sounds like she is a hoarder + has executive function issues + an addict.

All these issues can be independent of each other e.g. if she stopped drinking tomorrow, it doesn't mean she'll suddenly be able to sort her house out.

Unfortunately you can't help her get better. She needs to want to get better. I absolutely would not host or feed her. She can come round, have a cup of tea and a biscuit but that's it.

My FIL is a hoarder. He is in his 80s, he is getting worse. He won't throw anything away. We hardly ever go over. His house is a shit hole. When my DC were younger I told my DH that they weren't allowed to 'play' in that environment.
His house is awful, if we try to move anything or tidy anything up (not throw anything away), he gets annoyed. It means we hardly ever see him. His mental health & issues usurps his relationship with his DC and DGC. It's very sad.

hiredandsqueak · Today 17:13

I think your not wanting to host is separate to your dm's home conditions. I'm a granny and I host largely because my home is biggest and I don't mind feeding everyone.
I think it would be awful to deprive your children of a relationship they obviously enjoy with their granny and equally awful to deprive your mum of that relationship too.
What help do you want your mum to give that you feel she isn't giving with things as they are now? If mum didn't visit what difference would it make to your workload?
Do you feed everyone whist she is with you? It's only one more person but if that's too much can't you just offer a sandwich? Could you ask your mum to bring a couple of pizzas and a bagged salad with her and ask her to sort it when it's time?
I can't think of anything other than feeding her that would make more work than if she wasn't there but maybe I'm missing something?

CopperFern · Today 17:32

hiredandsqueak · Today 17:13

I think your not wanting to host is separate to your dm's home conditions. I'm a granny and I host largely because my home is biggest and I don't mind feeding everyone.
I think it would be awful to deprive your children of a relationship they obviously enjoy with their granny and equally awful to deprive your mum of that relationship too.
What help do you want your mum to give that you feel she isn't giving with things as they are now? If mum didn't visit what difference would it make to your workload?
Do you feed everyone whist she is with you? It's only one more person but if that's too much can't you just offer a sandwich? Could you ask your mum to bring a couple of pizzas and a bagged salad with her and ask her to sort it when it's time?
I can't think of anything other than feeding her that would make more work than if she wasn't there but maybe I'm missing something?

It’s not that it’s more work. It’s that she sits there and is as useless as my 2 year old in shouldering any of the load. I don’t expect her to handle bath time but maybe she could clear the table or at least put her own plate in the sink, instead of just sitting there talking to me while I do it all.

OP posts:
Zaza2020 · Today 17:33

What i hear from this isnt so much the cooking and having her round, but nothing being recipricated, it sounds like a one sided deal - which can be the case with people struggling with there mental health as highlighted by others above and my oen experience with a very disfunctional family. But also like any thing this is still not acceptable, you have your hands full. She could still contribute by bringing a meal or paying for a meal out or a takeaway. Staying to help a little with bathtime.

No answers, but wanted to drop in to tell you (I hear you!)

TheignT · Today 17:39

CopperFern · Today 16:44

Of course I didn’t phrase it like that, but how exactly am I supposed to handle it? Should I lie to them? Cover for her? I don’t know. Any advice is welcome.

Something like we can't at the moment as gran needs to get some things sorted out.

CopperFern · Today 17:50

TheignT · Today 17:39

Something like we can't at the moment as gran needs to get some things sorted out.

But she’s not gonna sort it out. do I just keep feeding the kids that line until they stop asking?

it’s a bit of a moot point anyway as she’s told the oldest she needs to tidy up before we can come around. My child thinks “maybe grandma doesn’t know how to clean”.

I would of course NEVER tell the kids “grandma doesn’t love you enough to clean her house” or anything like that. It’s important to me that they know she loves them.

OP posts:
hiredandsqueak · Today 17:51

CopperFern · Today 17:32

It’s not that it’s more work. It’s that she sits there and is as useless as my 2 year old in shouldering any of the load. I don’t expect her to handle bath time but maybe she could clear the table or at least put her own plate in the sink, instead of just sitting there talking to me while I do it all.

Can't you just say "Can you give me a hand Mum?" I tell dd to put the kettle on usually because I'm too busy playing tbh.
I think your mum sees her visits as a guest and you see her visits as a potential helping hand so you need to chat so that you are both on the same page.
I think easiest way would be to get your mum to bring food and sort it for you all but if that's not going to happen I'd say "right I've cooked I'm going to sit down whilst you sort the kitchen" and tell your eldest before she leaves "you and granny can tidy up together before she goes home I will be the judge of who does the best job".
I love my dd but I would feel as though I was stepping on her toes if I started cooking or cleaning in her home but would happily help with anything she asked me to do so maybe your mum feels the same.

TheignT · Today 17:56

CopperFern · Today 17:50

But she’s not gonna sort it out. do I just keep feeding the kids that line until they stop asking?

it’s a bit of a moot point anyway as she’s told the oldest she needs to tidy up before we can come around. My child thinks “maybe grandma doesn’t know how to clean”.

I would of course NEVER tell the kids “grandma doesn’t love you enough to clean her house” or anything like that. It’s important to me that they know she loves them.

Why not, it's the truth isn't it?

BrownBookshelf · Today 17:59

CopperFern · Today 17:32

It’s not that it’s more work. It’s that she sits there and is as useless as my 2 year old in shouldering any of the load. I don’t expect her to handle bath time but maybe she could clear the table or at least put her own plate in the sink, instead of just sitting there talking to me while I do it all.

What would happen if you asked her to do stuff?

Jo7890123 · Today 18:25

CopperFern · Today 17:32

It’s not that it’s more work. It’s that she sits there and is as useless as my 2 year old in shouldering any of the load. I don’t expect her to handle bath time but maybe she could clear the table or at least put her own plate in the sink, instead of just sitting there talking to me while I do it all.

She's not that person though. She comes to see those grandkids, not to provide anything or any help, to you; you may wish that she was the ideal grandma, helping with practical jobs, and providing a bit of childcare, but many grandparents are less invested than she is, or interfere/criticise with parenting.
Try to accept the relationship you can have with her, rather than being annoyed with her for not being what you'd like her to be.

My MIL was similar, she had many priorities above her grandchildren, but enjoyed short visits to our house eating whatever we offered, and seeing them (but far more talking about herself!). They enjoyed seeing her tho, and that relationship was worthwhile for them.

The state of your DMs house is sort of a separate issue, because she could do more to help by taking the kids to the park, or looking after them at your place while you pop out, without you hjaving access to the house - you have to accept that she doesn't want to help with practical stuff, she may feel that she brought you up, and has done her bit now (purely a guess, no idea why, but in a way it doesn't matter why..).

You may be concerned for her, but it sounds as if you've tried and failed to help with that. So again, if she seems content, give up worrying about how to change things, add a few boundaries if you need to, then make the best of what there is rather than hoping she'll change.

CopperFern · Today 18:26

BrownBookshelf · Today 17:59

What would happen if you asked her to do stuff?

Fair point, maybe I do need to stop being such a pushover and letting her just sit there. When asked directly she does pitch in. Just to clarify I don’t expect her to fold my laundry or wash the kids’ hair but maybe just sit with them in the bathroom while they have their bath so I can clean the kitchen or put her own teacup in the sink instead of leaving it on the table.

im the oldest and the only one of my siblings with kids and my siblings are much less sentimental, they do whatever they please and don’t care if that means mum is alone on Xmas whereas I feel guilty and bad about it.

I think at the core I feel as though she stopped being a mother to me when I myself became a mother and I feel… unmoored. It’s around the time of my youngest’s birthday as well which exacerbated everything last year, I thought maybe it would be easier this year but maybe not.

OP posts:
BrownBookshelf · Today 18:52

CopperFern · Today 18:26

Fair point, maybe I do need to stop being such a pushover and letting her just sit there. When asked directly she does pitch in. Just to clarify I don’t expect her to fold my laundry or wash the kids’ hair but maybe just sit with them in the bathroom while they have their bath so I can clean the kitchen or put her own teacup in the sink instead of leaving it on the table.

im the oldest and the only one of my siblings with kids and my siblings are much less sentimental, they do whatever they please and don’t care if that means mum is alone on Xmas whereas I feel guilty and bad about it.

I think at the core I feel as though she stopped being a mother to me when I myself became a mother and I feel… unmoored. It’s around the time of my youngest’s birthday as well which exacerbated everything last year, I thought maybe it would be easier this year but maybe not.

Ok, well it won't solve everything but I'd start by asking her to do specific things to help. That at least means the dynamic of her sitting on the sofa while you run around like a blue arsed fly is challenged.

Corvidsarethebest · Today 19:18

I think ask her to help. She clearly doesn't have the ability to 'get up and go' and struggles with initiative, so just ask for what you need- mum, can you watch the kids in the bath, mum can you put this on the table.

As for telling the truth to your children, I've come to believe over the years that some child version of the truth is better than lies. You could say 'Granny loves to see you, but her own house isn't good for visitors, which is why she comes here' or whatever. I don't think I'd tell them they will be going or that she will clean it, she won't. As they get older you may have to go with 'mum has issues, but she's part of our family'. It is tricky but I don't think telling lies works and then it's worse later on when the situation is revealed.

fivepastmidnight · Today 19:53

I would try and focus on what you can change and thats your behaviour rather than hers . Instead of letting her come round and sit there not doing anything Then I would force the issue. I'm not keeping the kids indoors on this lovely day so we're going to the park you're welcome to come with us .She can then sit on a bench without doing much but the kids at least getting out and about and you might be less irritated. I would also get her to do things when she's at your house So if you're preparing lunch if you can tell her to make you both a brew or set the table or something relatively small.

You mentioned the drinking in the past and I suspect you're right that she doesn't want you to see the bottles. My sister had a drink problem but could present outwardly OK for short periods in the day but the house was riddled with empty bottles from night time drinking.

I would also tell her that you're worried about the state of the house and why this has happened and that you are going to see about getting a social car referral. Whether that's possible ?Most of these services are underfunded and understaffed.

AlmostAJillSandwich · Today 19:54

I have severe OCD, and am a lower level hoarder. I'm the only one capable of sorting and cleaning, because my OCD means it has to be done in a certain way to not "contaminate" things that are currently clean, things need to be cleaned in a certain way to become "clean" etc.
Its a monumental pressure, and other people nagging makes it even more overwhelming.
Even if the house was tidy, clean etc i couldn't let people in as i couldn't control their hygiene what they touch that becomes contaminated etc.
Has your mum spoken to anyone professional, there's a chance this is an actual mental illness.

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