AIBU to stop always hosting visits when my mum refuses help?

[CopperFern]

My mother lives half a mile away from me. We see her at least every other week. My kids (5 and 2) love her and she clearly loves them back.

We’re not allowed in her home, because it’s too messy and dirty. My youngest has never been to her house and my oldest was last there maybe 2.5 years ago and is now starting to ask why we can’t visit.

Mum’s been retired for a year and keeps saying she’s going to “sanitise” her house and get it in order, but thus far I think if anything it’s got worse since she retired. Last year she was threatened a fine by the council for the state of her (tiny) yard, which i found out via my sibling.

She has the money to hire cleaners, should she choose to. My siblings and I have offered to help her clean (as we have in the past). All we get is “I’ll get around to it, stop nagging me”.

AIBU to put my foot down and say we can’t always meet at my house?

Have you tried simply telling her this? Not in an accusing tone, but simply a sad, wish things were different and it's upsetting me. I loved growing up in our home, the kids would adore some open space and don't understand why we don't visit. Leave her to gently stew in it and think it over.

Maybe ask if she would like to swap houses :)

What are you not getting? She isn’t well? Are you that much of a bi*ch? Your kids love her so have her at your house!

I'd be really glad I wasn't expected to go to her house - I wouldn't feel comfortable there and I certainly wouldn't want my children to go there.

I'd see it as a disability, OP - she can't change the way she is and has no interest in changing anyway.

Does she shower regularly and wash her hair and clothes?

Said by someone who has not one clue about mental health disorders and hoarding. What an unfeeling nasty person you are

I have struggled with my home over the last couple of years. Partly hoarding. Partly an increasing number of things that need doing and the overwhelm that comes with that. Working full time. The feeling of shame. The fear of being judged. I subtly stopped any visitors by hosting birthdays at parks or beaches or local venues, always being the one to offer to drive and meet elsewhere for meet ups, going for a walk for a catch up with friends rather than having them over for a cuppa etc. If anyone had noticed how bad it got I'd have been mortified. If help was offered I'd have felt a deep hot shame.

This year we had an emergency reason for work on the house (not related to the mess and hoarding) and have had to clear the whole place for various trades to do their thing (plumbing, roofing etc). I had to accept help from my closest family as there was a time limit and huge costs involved. It was painful and stressful and I feel sick and panicky just thinking about it.

I don't know your mum and I don't know her exact situation but I do know that the process of emptying the house and storing things temporarily in a family member's house, shed, garage, loft AND having people help with sorting through things, skip hire, tip runs, and my endless charity shop drops and getting things sorted for vinted and facebook marketplace has been hellish. It's been humbling in the worst way.

On a more positive note, I do know that things will be better when our house is ready to move back into. And the decluttering I've been forced to do will help to keep it a nicer space when we're back in and can redecorate.

I know mumsnet to be the least empathetic and supportive place I've ever experienced and I'm prepared to be called filthy and gross and evil and cruel and lazy and useless and whatever else it spirals into and that's the stuff that keeps people like me from letting other people inside and from accepting help before it gets to a desperate situation. Because I already feel all of those things inside even when I'm able to present a capable, put together, professional, helpful person in all situations OUTSIDE of my home.

I don't know if your mum's a hoarder with mental health issues or if she's just got too much stuff and is overwhelmed. I don't know if she doesn't care about what it looks and feels like or if she cares too much but can't even begin to feel ready to tackle a tiny bit of it or accept help.

Personally, I benefitted from the couple of people closest to me who came and physically got stuck in with no judgement. Who took boxes and bags of stuff and offered to sort through and donate. Who've helped me think positively about having a fresh start and choosing paint colours. Who've acknowledged that it's not easy and that they know I'm struggling.

The big kick up the bum was the house disaster that made it an emergency requirement.

I feel like you’ve got three choices:

1. Continue as you are
2. Stop her coming to your house (which means no longer having a relationship
3. Go to her house and put up with the dirt/ mess

If it was once a fortnight I’d just continue. I’m in a flat, my parents have a lovely big clean house with a garden - but I haven’t been there since February and they come to me every week. I just find it easier with all the toys being here tbh!

It sounds like she’s struggling with her mental health.

My dad was a hoarder. We had to intervene and gatecrash and declutter and organise a skip. We had to force him. We didn’t ask or offer, as he’d refuse help. So we took it into our own hands. It was more manageable after.

Please don’t punish her, or stop inviting her over to visit/dinner.

You can't argue or reason someone out of a mental health issue. What you see as offers to help, she may well experience as criticism. What you see as practical support, she may feel as intrusion, taking over, showing her how bad she is and how much better you are.

I would suggest looking at Mind https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-of-mental-health-problems/hoarding/useful-contacts-for-hoarding/ or Age UK https://www.ageuk.org.uk/lincolnshire/our-services/help-in-your-home/deepclean-decluttering/ for some ideas of how you might approach this differently.

Your way clearly isn't working, and if anything could be contributing to her feeling overwhelmed. Maybe a different approach could yield better results?

OP it sounds like your mum has a serious mental health condition, hoarding is a symptom of that and it's usually related to loss/trauma in early life. It's complex and not easily treated. Unfortunately, as you are aware, it's extremely frustrating and upsetting for close family members and often results in estrangement when they family feel totally burned out with trying to help and being rebuffed.

I can only suggest that you let go of the hope of being able to take the children to your mum's house and give them a simple explanation why - along the lines of nanny's house isn't clean or tidy enough for you to play there safely. They will gain more understanding as they get older.

As for the hosting, I would only host as often as you are comfortable with and otherwise arrange to meet up at a café or park restaurant for birthday celebrations. Be clear to your mum that while you understand she has a problem, it's too much to expect you to host every gathering. It might help you to access some therapy as coping with a hoarding parent is hard, it stirs up all sorts of emotions - anger, resentment, guilt, shame, despair - and it would be good for you to have a safe space to voice this. Take care of yourself 💐

This - it sounds as though your mother needs support and an intervention. Perhaps a nudge to go and see her GP if there a chance she has some level of depression. Punishing her by isolating her where there is likely something going on under the surface is rather cruel IMHO.

She’s clearly overwhelmed by the situation at her house. She knows she needs to sort it out, but she doesn’t know how. Steps that are obvious to you and me might not be obvious to her and she might be overwhelmed by the task.

I would get involved and help her sort it out - go there alone, no kids. Assess the situation and come up with a plan. Help her sort through things to throw away, take the bin bags to the skip. Arrange a cleaner for a deep clean. She clearly can’t do it on her own and needs support

You are not lazy, you are allowed to struggle with life’s responsibilities! We all do sometimes and it’s easy to spiral down. I’m glad your family supported you through this difficult experience, wishing you a lot of strength for the future ❤️ It will all get better now

I would drop the matter of her house but invite her less often to mine. Maybe 1 or 2 x month. Don’t invite her for Sunday dinner and if she comes around uninvited at a strategic time, feed only the children until she leaves, or alternatively say ‘you’ll have to leave now mum as I need to prepare lunch’. Don’t let her guilt you, if she says she feels unwelcome- ‘well, not nearly as unwelcome as I feel at your house mum but you choose not to do anything about it’. For her birthday go out somewhere child friendly. Basically, minimise the work on you. If the children need to let off steam, go to the park - she can come too or go back home.

I’ve tried. She blocked me in the door. Unless I sneak over when she isn’t home I don’t see what I can do that I haven’t already tried, short of physically forcing my way in.

My kids do give it thought. A while ago my oldest asked to come to dinner at her house and she said no because she has “no food”. My child was very concerned and kept telling me maybe we need to take grandma to the shop and show her where you buy it. They remember being there and playing with my old toys and helping grandma make a cake last time we were there :/

the little one on the other hand hasn’t even been there so has nothing to miss, I guess that’s a small favour!

Ha! Yes, I guess I am that much of a bi*ch as to not want my mother to live in squalor and to be allowed in my childhood home! I know, how simply dreadful of me!!

How's her personal hygiene? I'd be worried about her being in my house if hers is as you describe.

But you don't seem to be understanding that it is most likely a mental health issue...

There is something really wrong in your mother’s life.

Of course you feel upset and even angry that you can’t have the sort of relationship you want. It’d be much nicer if she were functioning well and you could just pop round and the kids play in her garden.

But that’s not the situation. You have to accept your feelings about the situation as it really is.

Then move on to thinking about how you want to handle it.

Is there anything you can do to improve the situation and get it closer to how you’d like it? Probably not. Sounds like you’ve tried most things to get her to deal with her house.

How can you make the best of the situation as it is? What you’ve been doing, putting up with hosting a slightly irritating grandmother, is probably the best route through a suboptimal situation.

You want your kids to have a relationship with her, and that’s probably the only way you can facilitate it. Anything you can do to steer the timings and circumstances of the visits to make them less annoying will of course help.

But you can’t make your mother take responsibility for her mental health and or the state of her home. You can only act in ways that maximize the outcomes according to your priorities. Those seem, quite rightly, to be your children’s relationship with her plus your own sanity.

Getting all cross and stopping her coming round wouldn’t promote your children’s relationship with her and it probably wouldn’t actually buy you much peace of mind.

It’s fine, usually. She had a period when she only washed her hair twice a week and it looked pretty rancid the day before but I think she’s gone back to more frequent washes now (or gotten herself better dry shampoo, who knows).

there was a period when I was very concerned about her drinking as well but either it’s better or she’s gotten better at hiding it from me. Part of me thinks I’m not allowed at her house because I’ll see all the empty bottles and cans.

You understand that her reluctance based on shame, yes? It's not a sign that she doesnt love you or care for her grandchildren.

It's ok to dial back on visits to your house, taking them to a frequency that you are happy with.

It's ok to sometimes offer to meet her at the park/softplay etc if that suits you - if she chooses not to meet you, well you offered.

It's ok to be sad things aren't different.

But trying to force her to change won't end well. If she is to change, it will take a huge amount of support. Maybe easier to accept the situation is what it is.

YABU, sounds like your mother needs some help, aren't you worried about her?

Sadly it probably is down to that reason op. Could she not hire a skip and just get rid of all the rubbish at once?

I do. It’s either depression or alcoholism or budding dementia or a combination of any of the three but I don’t know what the hell I’m supposed to do about it. She won’t talk to me about it at all. I’ve been calm, I’ve been stern, I’ve cried, I’ve yelled. I don’t know what else to do.

Is my concern not shining through my posts?