To think amount of Roma and Traveller children withdrawn from school underage needs to be cracked down on?

[Jane379]

Two things have made me think about this.

One was the recent thread on Venezuela Fury, Tyson's daughter. Her situation appears slightly different as apparently she did receive tuition online but it made me look into the wider situation.

I know there has been improvement, and that many Roma & travellers families don't do this. But it shouldn't be allowed in the first place. Yes, some who do may homeschool their kids properly, but how many?

There needs to be more regulation of homeschooling.

Why do Roma & traveller kids often slip through the net? Is it sometimes linked to families moving around so children move from one LA to another?

There' nothing wrong with kids preferring to pursue technical options than academic, or living the travelling lifestyle. But school would give them a chance to choose.

Abuse happens to women and men, despite their culture, religion, race, education, or wealth. It happens to anyone. Traveller and non-traveller.

Education is about options, it’s about development, contribution and gaining broader perspectives.

If a child is denied an education, it’s then you’re hurting. Parents can’t choose to hurt their children, at some stage, onlookers should act and help the child. They don’t choose their parents.

Thank you, this is very interesting.

Can I ask, what if a gay Roma wanted to adopt a child/go through sperm donation (if female)? Would that be opposed? What is the attitude to adoption generally?

When you say 'isn't flaunted' does this mean being in the closet/not having a partner? Or more that everyone knows but it's never spoken about explicitly?

Trouble is, no-one checks on what education they get. THIS is what needs to be resolved. There is plenty of help and support for home education, but seemingly no concern about what is actually provided. .

This exactly.

Most Rom don't think flushing toilets in the place you cook, eat, breathe and do everything else is hygienic
I expect they are right. But what are the alternatives?

I find fighting pretty grim tbh.

Who is taking the kids out of education?

We need to stop hiding behind the fear of looking racist or offensive and start saying it how it is.

The parents are taking the girls out of school. It’s their choice. They need to challenge it within their own culture. They need to want more rights and freedom for their daughters.

@Jane379 @Jaxhog
The challenge is - define "education."

Thank you, that is very sad.

It seems in some areas the traveller community is almost mafia-like in that police etc are cowed into not challenging stuff like this. This must change.

Unfortunately, recent studies shows that only 27% of travellers in Ireland finish secondary school. While that is better than it used to be as it was more common not to go to secondary school at all, it is still very low and a lot more needs to be done.

Schools have to report children who miss more than 20 days but it is only followed up in on extreme cases.

Kate Middleton is (going to do a Hilary Mantel here and land myself in all sorts of bother) an emblem of mainstream British culture, as a royal - isn't that exactly what they're for? And her function was to produce an heir. And she's extreme vulnerable, trapped even.

As a person I'm sure she's lovely, and I have 3 kids myself so no judgement on that or any other front.

What I meant was that her, and Carrie Johnson, and Nigella Lawson are all surely peak examples of white British womenhood: university educated, clever, beautiful, seem like kind and fun people who care about important things. And none of that has given them anything like what I'd call freedom or autonomy, or kept them safe.

there was a family of them with loads of kids running round Primark at York a few weeks ago when they should have been in school , staff keeping an eye out I think

It should be defined as GCSE level standard at least, or equivalent technical education. There needs to be standardised tests/inspection so there is some way of checking.

As I think @ThejoyofNC points out, they're taking them out of school. Not necessarily out of education.

Yes but they can read and can ask for help if needed.

I'm sorry, I just don't buy it.

Hmm...I see your point and I have issues with royalty myself but the point of them is that they're exceptional. They're not living the typical upper middle class life or aristocratic life.

I know there have been rumours about Kate but it's still a bit much to assume she's trapped. If she is, William is arguably more so..at least she chose the marriage and was not born in.

I still don't see (setting aside this police etc incident which we don't know a lot about) how Carrie Johnson necessarily lacks freedom or safety.

Nigella has lived a pretty free and autonomous life aside from Saatchi' abuse. Education can't stop abuse but it can give you tools to get out.

Do you think they’re being home schooled? Not likely when their parents never finished their education!

What education are they receiving at home though? GCSE standard English & maths at least, I hope?

Mafia-like in that there's intense internal policing because the actual police are or at least have been so discriminatory and heavy handed.

It might look bad from the outside but it's the best the community can do in the circumstances. And it does help keep the comments safe from the police.

Again, if you're coming from a place of genius interest in solving the problems, the place to start is why is this working for this community, and what might work better for them.

They’ve all had jobs! They’ve travelled, are well educated and could go back to work tomorrow.

Kates fame holds her back, but that’s the same for anyone famous. She still goes on state visits and champions charities.

If you’re comparing women of famous men, to traveller women, then that would be comical if it wasn’t so sad.

@Jane379 I don't necessarily disagree, but unsure who would be tasked to carry this out?
And who is going to educate these children to GCSE level or equivalent?

This is hardly unique to traveller culture.

the Madonna/whore complex is ingrained in most western societies

I can read. I couldn't ask for help. Just because they're rich and educated doesn't mean they can ask for help.

@Jane379 i really think she's trapped because how can she ever leave? But that's beside the point. My point is more than she's a symbol of a culture, and as such she absolutely does not persist me that that culture is preferable to mine. To be clear, this isn't about her as a person or even about her marriage or anything. It's about what she represents, and how, to me, what I have is much, much better, even though it's far from perfect.

But no qualifications and married and left home before she reach the end of school age...

How do those jobs pay for the very lavish weddings and funerals?

If parents are making this choice, fine. They need to pay for tutors.