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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think some people on here are way too obsessed with not being seen as racist?

323 replies

BadWordlePlayer · Yesterday 08:49

I’m posting in AIBU because this has been niggling at me for a while with the tone of so many threads lately, but it's really blown up following the bodycam footage of the Henry Nowak case.

There seem to be loads of posts these days where people are basically showing off how not racist they are, or how much they hate racists or the 'far right', or jumping in to call something racist at the slightest thing. It feels performative, like they’re desperate to signal their virtue and make sure everyone knows they’re on the “right” side. I get that racism is bad, obviously, but it sometimes feels like it’s taken over to the point where common sense goes out the window.

Henry Nowak shows how dangerous this mindset is. This poor 18-year-old student was stabbed multiple times by Vickrum Digwa, who then lied to the police claiming Henry had racially abused him. The officers took that accusation at face value, handcuffed Henry while he was lying there bleeding out and saying he couldn’t breathe, and didn’t treat him as the victim urgently enough. He died in police custody essentially. The mindset of those officers sounds exactly like the over-the-top “must not be perceived as racist” attitude you see in some threads here. They sidelined a dying boy because of a racism claim (which turned out to be a complete lie). That’s not just sad — it’s dangerous.

This isn't a left wing / right wing post and I’m not saying racism doesn’t exist or that we shouldn’t call it out when it’s real. I also hate the phrase "virtue signalling", but I can't think of a better one than it. This constant virtue-signalling and knee-jerk reactions make situations like Henry’s more likely, not less. People (including police) become so paralysed by the fear of getting it wrong on race that they get it horrifically wrong on everything else.

Am I being unreasonable? Or has anyone else noticed this shift on MN and in general?

OP posts:
OneTealShaker · Yesterday 13:09

TheWiseOliveOtter · Yesterday 13:07

What do you mean he has a free pass to kill? No he doesn't thats absolutely not true.

He was literally carrying a knife…..sorry two knives, legally. Are you not following the facts.

BillieWiper · Yesterday 13:10

Twisterlollies · Yesterday 13:03

Well, they’re all clamouring to downplay the slaying of Henry. That’s fairly racist in my book. We all know their reactions had this been a young non white lad who bled out while handcuffed after being stabbed as his white attacker was fawned over and asked to choose his food from the kitchen.

I don't understand what you're talking about with food and kitchens? You can be anti racist and still being horrified by the lad's death?

HumberSquid · Yesterday 13:11

Sskka · Yesterday 09:14

Hardly, and yet it would have produced a better outcome than anti-racism did. That should prompt some serious thought.

To answer the OP, there was a shift towards doing absolutely anything so long as it didn’t make you look racist, but it wasn’t on here and it happened about ten years ago. If you see more of it on mumsnet these days, it’s because mumsnet is slow in catching up.

What, like it did in the case of Stephen Lawrence? Is that the sort of better outcome you favour?

TheWiseOliveOtter · Yesterday 13:21

OneTealShaker · Yesterday 13:09

He was literally carrying a knife…..sorry two knives, legally. Are you not following the facts.

So obviously what he did was awful, everyone agrees on that. But carrying a knife does not mean he has a free pass to kill, thats just nonsense.

OneTealShaker · Yesterday 13:26

TheWiseOliveOtter · Yesterday 13:21

So obviously what he did was awful, everyone agrees on that. But carrying a knife does not mean he has a free pass to kill, thats just nonsense.

The disingenuous dismissive nature of your comment is plan for all to see and won’t wash anymore. People can see for themselves.

thisisplanetearthapparently · Yesterday 13:27

hopeforhope · Yesterday 11:46

Referring to someone as most intellectually challenged people is a disability slur and just as insulting as a racist slur.
You used that disability comparison as an insult.

Is being thick/ignorant a disability?

Thepeopleversuswork · Yesterday 13:29

OneTealShaker · Yesterday 09:45

The silent majority won’t speak. Because of fear of being labelled racist by the rabid mob. The worrying thing is that their perfectly legitimate views are made out to be extremist. This is how race relations suffer. The left are causing this problem to become worse.

Farage is right about one thing. We don’t need to worry about him. We need to worry about what comes after him.

What are you talking about?

The so-called “silent majority” is shouting from the rooftops at the moment. It hasn’t been as fashionable to be racist as it was in the days of Enoch Powell.

LuckyHazelFox · Yesterday 13:34

Thepeopleversuswork · Yesterday 13:29

What are you talking about?

The so-called “silent majority” is shouting from the rooftops at the moment. It hasn’t been as fashionable to be racist as it was in the days of Enoch Powell.

That tactic isn't going to work anymore. Do you remember burning cars, looting and statues being toppled during covid? Anti-semitism rife on Palestinian marches? When the public have observed enough they won't stay silent.

LuckyHazelFox · Yesterday 13:35

thisisplanetearthapparently · Yesterday 13:27

Is being thick/ignorant a disability?

It never seems to be an issue when Reform voters are called it.

TheWiseOliveOtter · Yesterday 13:36

OneTealShaker · Yesterday 13:26

The disingenuous dismissive nature of your comment is plan for all to see and won’t wash anymore. People can see for themselves.

No one can actually be this stupid I am going to assume you are being deliberately obtuse and ridiculous, just to get a reaction. I certainly hope so 😂😂😂

Bertiebiscuit · Yesterday 13:38

GoodkneeBadKnee · Yesterday 09:11

I think a lot of posters on here positively revel in saying racist stuff. It's a great time to be a racist. Very en vogue, and actively encouraged.

Really? Proof? Or are you just race baiting?

LuckyHazelFox · Yesterday 13:40

Bertiebiscuit · Yesterday 13:38

Really? Proof? Or are you just race baiting?

Ironic given that it's on trend to be a Free Palestine chanter as well. I said on another thread, these lefties aren't as clever as they think.

Thepeopleversuswork · Yesterday 13:53

LuckyHazelFox · Yesterday 13:34

That tactic isn't going to work anymore. Do you remember burning cars, looting and statues being toppled during covid? Anti-semitism rife on Palestinian marches? When the public have observed enough they won't stay silent.

What have burning cars and statues during COVID got to do with racism?

As for the antisemitism on Pro Palestine marches I agree this a scourge on our society.

But this is hardly an example of a “silent majority”. People have (rightly) expressed their revulsion at antisemitism in our society. I am wholeheartedly behind them.

But people starting threads saying they think everyone should just get comfortable with being a little bit more racist do not have the interest of British Jews top of mind, however they twist the rhetoric.

Racism is racism. And its become more acceptable to be racist than at any time in my lifetime.

JHound · Yesterday 13:54

No I don’t believe people are terrified of being seen as racist and I definitely do not believe the police are scared of being seen as racist (if they were media releases, stop and search figures, strip search of minor figures etc. would look very very very different.) I actually the opposite is true and we are returning to the era of the 50s and before where racism was normal and the status quo.

I do think there was an element of “model minority” fetishisation going on. I think if Digwa was not a (geeky looking) Sikh man the police wouldn’t have been so quick to believe his story.

Teethyblinders · Yesterday 13:57

BusyExpert · Yesterday 11:43

You are wrong. Chinese Muslim are ethnically different to the indigenous Chinese. And so on. If ethnically Chinese people worship Islam they remain Chinese
To follow the logic of what you are saying is that all Europeans must be Christians. If an Englishman converts to Islam does he become a Muslim? No
I know plenty of Muslims that do not practice Islam or follow its dictates they are all integrated follow western laws and social norms.

Bold of you to say you are wrong while being wrong. If an Englishman converts to Islam he does indeed become a Muslim. Same for a Chinese man.

There are people who aren’t super religious and say they’re Muslim because it’s their parents religion and they were raised that way. You get the same with some Christian’s though

LuckyHazelFox · Yesterday 13:58

Thepeopleversuswork · Yesterday 13:53

What have burning cars and statues during COVID got to do with racism?

As for the antisemitism on Pro Palestine marches I agree this a scourge on our society.

But this is hardly an example of a “silent majority”. People have (rightly) expressed their revulsion at antisemitism in our society. I am wholeheartedly behind them.

But people starting threads saying they think everyone should just get comfortable with being a little bit more racist do not have the interest of British Jews top of mind, however they twist the rhetoric.

Racism is racism. And its become more acceptable to be racist than at any time in my lifetime.

As in my lifetime, has it never been known for race to shape policing as where we are at now. Great to see it discussed in Parliament because its a recognised problem. Just some are refusing to see it.

BoredZelda · Yesterday 13:58

You think not being racist is virtue signalling? Isn’t not being racist pretty much bare minimum of requirements to be a decent human?

ainsleysanob · Yesterday 14:00

LejlaKapovic · Yesterday 11:01

Yeah, as a Muslim, I agree that Islam is incompatible with Western values.

Muslim kids are taught to respect their parents instead of swearing at them and treating them like garbage. Fathers are expected to actually raise their children instead of acting like "babysitting" their own kids is some heroic favour.

A lot of modern Western men want “50/50” while their wife works like a horse, pays bills, cooks, cleans, does laundry, raises the children, handles the house, and still gets cheated on - by a man whose hardest daily task is choosing between football, gaming, alcohol, weed or scrolling on his phone (when he's not cheating, that is).

In Islam, a woman’s money is her money. A man pays the bills. He maintains the home. He is accountable for his family. A woman isn’t even obligated to breastfeed her own child in Islamic law. Muslim women aren't expected to financially provide, raise children, manage the home, and pretend this exhaustion is empowerment.

Muslim children usually grow up with one mother and one father — not random new partners rotating through the house every year. We discipline our children instead of letting TikTok and iPads raise them. Oh, and teenage pregnancies in Muslim families are practically unheard of. As is being sexually abused by our family members and family friends.

We don’t glorify hookup culture, OnlyFans, porn, gambling, alcoholism, and getting high every weekend like it’s some enlightened lifestyle. This is not our idea of freedom.

Muslims care deeply for their parents and family members when they get old — we don't throw them into care homes, visit twice a year out of guilt, and gleefully wait for their deaths so we can cash in on our inheritances.

We avoid interest and debt because we believe being a slave to corrupt banks isn’t right or freedom. We happily give charity because helping people is an obligation for us, not a superficial performance.

So yeah, I agree with you. Islam is totally incompatible with Western values.

And since you seem so happy and proud to absorb the label of racist, here you go: you absolutely are a racist.

“As is being sexually abused by our family members and family friends.”

Well of course you’re not. They reserve that for little white girls, like in my home town of Rotherham. Where it’s not one or two Muslim men doing the raping, abusing, murdering - it’s hordes of them.

JHound · Yesterday 14:04

LuckyHazelFox · Yesterday 13:58

As in my lifetime, has it never been known for race to shape policing as where we are at now. Great to see it discussed in Parliament because its a recognised problem. Just some are refusing to see it.

This is such a load of nonsense.

has it never been known for race to shape policing as where we are at now.

JHound · Yesterday 14:06

BusyExpert · Yesterday 11:43

You are wrong. Chinese Muslim are ethnically different to the indigenous Chinese. And so on. If ethnically Chinese people worship Islam they remain Chinese
To follow the logic of what you are saying is that all Europeans must be Christians. If an Englishman converts to Islam does he become a Muslim? No
I know plenty of Muslims that do not practice Islam or follow its dictates they are all integrated follow western laws and social norms.

A muslim who is Chinese can also be indigenous Chinese. Those things are not mutually exclusive.

LuckyHazelFox · Yesterday 14:07

JHound · Yesterday 14:04

This is such a load of nonsense.

has it never been known for race to shape policing as where we are at now.

In your opinion. If that's not the case why is parliament addressing the exact point I've made?

JHound · Yesterday 14:07

OneTealShaker · Yesterday 13:09

He was literally carrying a knife…..sorry two knives, legally. Are you not following the facts.

If he had a “free pass” to kill he would not have been convicted.

Passaggressfedup · Yesterday 14:10

Why can’t we show compassion for everyone who is a victim of a horrendous crime and stop ignoring the fact that far more rapes/assaults/murders in this country are committed by white men. Male violence is the problem, across every ethnicity!
I was ready for this ending. So predictable on MN! It started well ...and then has to end with but as white men commit more crime, we should give them as much importance....

JHound · Yesterday 14:11

LuckyHazelFox · Yesterday 14:07

In your opinion. If that's not the case why is parliament addressing the exact point I've made?

It’s not my opinion. A casual glance at British policing for decades (especially in the 60s, 70s, 90s), the Macpherson report, disproportionality in anything from stop and search to minors being strip searched out of the presence of a suitable adult and Met police choice in media release shows that no, “race shaping policing” is categorically not at the most extreme it’s ever been.

You are confusing your emotion with empirical data.

LuckyHazelFox · Yesterday 14:14

JHound · Yesterday 14:11

It’s not my opinion. A casual glance at British policing for decades (especially in the 60s, 70s, 90s), the Macpherson report, disproportionality in anything from stop and search to minors being strip searched out of the presence of a suitable adult and Met police choice in media release shows that no, “race shaping policing” is categorically not at the most extreme it’s ever been.

You are confusing your emotion with empirical data.

I know what I am referring to and repeated attempts to minimise a societal problem isn't going to change my mind. That report and its findings were taken in such a way that fidnt privide balance. Policing without fear or favour has long since gone.