AIBU to think some people on here are way too obsessed with not being seen as racist?

[BadWordlePlayer]

I’m posting in AIBU because this has been niggling at me for a while with the tone of so many threads lately, but it's really blown up following the bodycam footage of the Henry Nowak case.

There seem to be loads of posts these days where people are basically showing off how not racist they are, or how much they hate racists or the 'far right', or jumping in to call something racist at the slightest thing. It feels performative, like they’re desperate to signal their virtue and make sure everyone knows they’re on the “right” side. I get that racism is bad, obviously, but it sometimes feels like it’s taken over to the point where common sense goes out the window.

Henry Nowak shows how dangerous this mindset is. This poor 18-year-old student was stabbed multiple times by Vickrum Digwa, who then lied to the police claiming Henry had racially abused him. The officers took that accusation at face value, handcuffed Henry while he was lying there bleeding out and saying he couldn’t breathe, and didn’t treat him as the victim urgently enough. He died in police custody essentially. The mindset of those officers sounds exactly like the over-the-top “must not be perceived as racist” attitude you see in some threads here. They sidelined a dying boy because of a racism claim (which turned out to be a complete lie). That’s not just sad — it’s dangerous.

This isn't a left wing / right wing post and I’m not saying racism doesn’t exist or that we shouldn’t call it out when it’s real. I also hate the phrase "virtue signalling", but I can't think of a better one than it. This constant virtue-signalling and knee-jerk reactions make situations like Henry’s more likely, not less. People (including police) become so paralysed by the fear of getting it wrong on race that they get it horrifically wrong on everything else.

Am I being unreasonable? Or has anyone else noticed this shift on MN and in general?

Anti-racism. I referred to it a couple of posts ago. Or are we into ‘pretending not to understand things’ territory already?

The definition of who is racist can be interpreted differently depending on many factors. Generations being a big one, cultures too.

I soooo agree how frightened people have become scared of being accused of any -ism. Racism, sexism, ageism...because it's become the norm to assign these terms based on ones own definition of the word.

Of course, there is a clear definition of what racism is, but how it is interpreted and assigned is not forcibly clearly defined.

I don't consider myself racist, certainly not from the perspective of my generation and culture, but I accept, and respect, that a different generation or culture could disagree based on some things I might say, so like many, I keep my mouth shut systematically. I refuse though to let judgement clouds my principles as it did for these police officers.

This is such a profound case of wanting to show awareness and respect of culture differences backfiring badly. Dreadfully sad.

I actual real life I was talking to a very left leaning teacher about food of all things I happen to mention that I love Pakistani food her face creased like I’d said something racist. That I was specific to the nationality of origin and didn’t just say curry which is in its self a racist assumption that curry is the only thing on offer.

I have come to the conclusion that they are mentally ill!

Absolutely this! These people will be absolutely astounded when they see reform obliterate all the other parties at the next GE and wonder how that happened and where it came from!

I would much prefer if people were concerned about actually not being racist, rather than worried about not being seen as racist.

The racism on MN has definitely increased in the 12+ years I have been here. Sadly, I think that is a reflection of the wider society.

Post edited by MNHQ to redact offensive term.

I remember casually mentioning the country Pakistan to someone. Not in a negative way.

She became a bit pissy, turns out she didn’t even know Pakistan was a country and thought I was being racist and taking the piss because Pakistan contains “p**i”

I have to laugh that these are the same people who like to throw around the word “ignorant” at anyone that disagrees with their far left world view.

The racism on MN has definitely increased in the 12+ years I have been here. Sadly, I think that is a reflection of the wider society
But could it be because racism has expanded it's meaning. 50 years ago, racism was mainly judge through people's actions. Nowadays it is also, or even primarily judge by what people say, with a 'incorrect' dialect automatically judged as racist, regardless of the intention or belief.

A perfect example of the acceptable 'dialect' is being able to use a certain word only if it includes a number of *, when ultimately, it's still the same word that is being communicated

As a lady of older generation, I fail to understand why using the word is racist, but taking one letter out and replacing it with a * isn't!

I'm not pretending - just can't keep up with individual posts, so it helps when you're clear in your response instead of hinting.

I can't imagine anti-racism is the ideology behind coppers behaving stupidly; though I accept racism has caused coppers to behave horrendously, time and time again.

If police officers are being trained to be mindful of racism, that is a good thing. That does not, however, incapacitates well trained officers' ability to make sound judgement.

I expect that a group of officers arriving on scene are trained to secure an area, then safeguard the vulnerable. You take the accused aside and someone sees to the person on the ground, not resisting but telling you they are injured.

Anti-racism training does not cause an officer to ignore an individual on the ground, pleading that they have been stabbed. That is purely incompetent policing. The same incompetent policing that led to anti-racism training.

Yep the exact same thing. I spoke to an actual real Pakistani about it and his mind was blown.

When I posted I was ready for someone not to believe me as told someone else the story and the accused me of reading it in the daily mail which I don’t read. They have a very narrow dare I say ignorant world view.

I suspect quite a few of those people are going to be feeling very stupid with the release of Henry's arrest video. This is the culmination of the race card being used and empowered by the left. The other thread on two tier policing shows some very vile human beings whose priority is to call everyone racist. Not shock and disgust or compassion for everything that Henry Nowak went through. Their virtue signalling has been shown for what it is.

Yeah, as a Muslim, I agree that Islam is incompatible with Western values.

Muslim kids are taught to respect their parents instead of swearing at them and treating them like garbage. Fathers are expected to actually raise their children instead of acting like "babysitting" their own kids is some heroic favour.

A lot of modern Western men want “50/50” while their wife works like a horse, pays bills, cooks, cleans, does laundry, raises the children, handles the house, and still gets cheated on - by a man whose hardest daily task is choosing between football, gaming, alcohol, weed or scrolling on his phone (when he's not cheating, that is).

In Islam, a woman’s money is her money. A man pays the bills. He maintains the home. He is accountable for his family. A woman isn’t even obligated to breastfeed her own child in Islamic law. Muslim women aren't expected to financially provide, raise children, manage the home, and pretend this exhaustion is empowerment.

Muslim children usually grow up with one mother and one father — not random new partners rotating through the house every year. We discipline our children instead of letting TikTok and iPads raise them. Oh, and teenage pregnancies in Muslim families are practically unheard of. As is being sexually abused by our family members and family friends.

We don’t glorify hookup culture, OnlyFans, porn, gambling, alcoholism, and getting high every weekend like it’s some enlightened lifestyle. This is not our idea of freedom.

Muslims care deeply for their parents and family members when they get old — we don't throw them into care homes, visit twice a year out of guilt, and gleefully wait for their deaths so we can cash in on our inheritances.

We avoid interest and debt because we believe being a slave to corrupt banks isn’t right or freedom. We happily give charity because helping people is an obligation for us, not a superficial performance.

So yeah, I agree with you. Islam is totally incompatible with Western values.

And since you seem so happy and proud to absorb the label of racist, here you go: you absolutely are a racist.

I’d go further and say that some western cultures have no place in modern Europe. Any culture that places unequal value or expectations on women and men is an anathema. Plenty of “white” examples of that.

Fantastic post @BusyExpert

you are conflating Islam a religion, with Muslim an ethnicity, not surprising as often people like you are too quick to read or hear what they want rather than what is said
Those screaming racism where there is none are without doubt the dullest, as in boring , and most intellectually challenged people. However as I said before I don’t care what people like you think.

I hate it that when you complain about something legitimate- like antisocial behaviour- you're a racist. I don't care what colour the person who's misbehaving is- I just want the behaviour to stop. Our new neighbours have said that I'm racist because I complained about them moving stuff and screaming while playing video games in the middle of the night🙄. Like your origin shouldn't make you a target but it's not to be used as a shield either.

I don’t think people believe racism as it used to be, when the word was coined, exists anymore. The objection to untrammelled immigration has been called racist, so the word has broken, it’s been cheapened, misused, it no longer has meaning.

also, people nowadays pretend that people don’t like people with coloured skin. It’s so absurdly facile to people that are objecting to demographic insult, to pretend it’s about skin colour.

it becomes apparent that is people of low intelligence that rely on the word racist as a lever to put them on their high horse. So immediately they have zero credibility.

And I would agree with you. Which is why I clearly said that skin colour is irrelevant, it is not something to be proud or ashamed of, it just is, it is out of an individuals control. Which makes the people who focus in on it constantly the real racists

See we have many values in common. But in my world women are free to work if they so wish, they don't have to hide their hair or body and they are basically FREE. In Islam women are second class citizens.

Well said. Evidenced by the interpretation of Farage's "pure cold rage" thinking it's inciting riots. Thick as pig shit not to see the meaning behind that phrase. Everyone should be feeling enraged at the police response.

I'm not conflating religion and ethnicity at all. I specifically responded to your claim that "Islam is incompatible with western values".

My point is that I've known many practising Muslims who believe in democracy, freedom of speech, religious freedom and peaceful coexistence. Those seem like western values to me.

You're free to criticise aspects of any religion, including Islam, but saying an entire religion is incompatible with western society is a claim built on intolerance and ignorance and is demonstrably false by the reality of millions of Muslims living perfectly ordinary lives across Britain and the wider West.

Also, I haven't called you racist. I challenged a particular view. Disagreeing with someone's argument isn't the same thing as calling them names.

I think you’re conflating a lot of disparate issues. But to answer your key question, I haven’t noticed a trend of people making posts about how not racist they are on MN.

Next time there's a Reform thread and there are many of them, you can see the evidence.

@Dweetfidilove “If police officers are being trained to be mindful of racism, that is a good thing. That does not, however, incapacitates well trained officers' ability to make sound judgement.
I expect that a group of officers arriving on scene are trained to secure an area, then safeguard the vulnerable. You take the accused aside and someone sees to the person on the ground, not resisting but telling you they are injured.
Anti-racism training does not cause an officer to ignore an individual on the ground, pleading that they have been stabbed.”

We will see, but if you introduce an additional priority into people’s jobs then it will affect how they do them—how could it not?—and it might even result in them being unable to perform the function that they are actually supposed to be there for.

We’ve already seen it happen. Recall for example the Ariana Grande bombing, and the security guard who decided not to challenge the bomber because he didn’t want to appear racist.

Incredibly well put….I agree with everything you say