AIBU to think some people on here are way too obsessed with not being seen as racist?

[BadWordlePlayer]

I’m posting in AIBU because this has been niggling at me for a while with the tone of so many threads lately, but it's really blown up following the bodycam footage of the Henry Nowak case.

There seem to be loads of posts these days where people are basically showing off how not racist they are, or how much they hate racists or the 'far right', or jumping in to call something racist at the slightest thing. It feels performative, like they’re desperate to signal their virtue and make sure everyone knows they’re on the “right” side. I get that racism is bad, obviously, but it sometimes feels like it’s taken over to the point where common sense goes out the window.

Henry Nowak shows how dangerous this mindset is. This poor 18-year-old student was stabbed multiple times by Vickrum Digwa, who then lied to the police claiming Henry had racially abused him. The officers took that accusation at face value, handcuffed Henry while he was lying there bleeding out and saying he couldn’t breathe, and didn’t treat him as the victim urgently enough. He died in police custody essentially. The mindset of those officers sounds exactly like the over-the-top “must not be perceived as racist” attitude you see in some threads here. They sidelined a dying boy because of a racism claim (which turned out to be a complete lie). That’s not just sad — it’s dangerous.

This isn't a left wing / right wing post and I’m not saying racism doesn’t exist or that we shouldn’t call it out when it’s real. I also hate the phrase "virtue signalling", but I can't think of a better one than it. This constant virtue-signalling and knee-jerk reactions make situations like Henry’s more likely, not less. People (including police) become so paralysed by the fear of getting it wrong on race that they get it horrifically wrong on everything else.

Am I being unreasonable? Or has anyone else noticed this shift on MN and in general?

no I think everything you describe is normal behaviour tbh.

so you think those values do not exist in non Muslim households? How extraordinarily bigoted of you
as bigoted as if I said that all Muslims shroud their womenfolk, subject their daughters to genital mutilation, seek jihad, and rape young white girls and women. . I do not however say or think that and I make a clear distinction between Muslims, an ethnicity, and Islam a medieval religion that has as little place in modern day society as the catholics at the time of the Spanish Inquisition.

I voted in agreement because I agree but didn’t dare comment, I think that’s what we have been conditioned to do.
The voting shows this.
Ok so I have commented now (name changed of course) but only to say yes you’ve hit the nail on the head here.

You keep mentioning that “Muslims are an ethnicity”. That is not the case.

Someone is Muslim if their religion is Islam. A Muslim can be from any country, or can be any colour. There are European Muslims (Albanians for example are often Muslim), there are Chinese Muslims etc.

I haven’t noticed much virtue signaling on MN, but I’ve definitely seen a lot of racism and xenophobia on here.

Sounds like the police were completely incompetent and lacking in empathy, and I doubt very much that they’d have done a better job had races been reversed.

You shouldn't have to name change. The fact you've felt the need is very telling.

There was a thread a few months ago. A poster saying a neighbour had put a note through the door saying they were hosting a wedding so for 5 days there'd be music into the night and more cars parked in the road.

The first few posts were saying how they wouldn't be happy with that then someone said 5 days? is it an Indian wedding? OP said yes and then you had dozens of posters falling over themselves to say how much they would LOVE that in their street. The music, the wonderful colourful outfits, the fantastic food smells. Oh i'm jealous OP, i'd want to join in! Is it the wedding you object to? or all the brown people? Oh don't be a spoilsport, you can put up with parking your car somewhere else and put ear plugs in if you don't want to hear all the people enjoying themselves.

Till the OP pointed out she was also Indian and didn't appreciate the virtue signalling and as she'd said, people who have to go to work or have kids that need sleep shouldn't be inconvenienced for 5 days because of a wedding.

If it was Kayleigh and Jaydens wedding I don't think MN would have been quite so thrilled with the idea of a 5 day noisy celebration and call 101, complain to whoever will listen will have been the order of the day.

That's one example off the top of my head.

H.e.a.d I.n. s.a.n.d.

I wouldn’t be educated enough to put my thoughts into words. I’ll try carefully mass immigration is having a massive effect on the country, hmo’s are a nightmare for communities, the difference in culture is causing issues.
I understand that men are allowed to hassle women in the Middle East and certain parts of Africa. This is only a small number of men out of 1000’s but the streets feel unsafe.
1000’s of working visas offered to India has also caused a rise in tension when rents are astronomical in price, hospital appointments are non existent, if you can find somewhere to rent you’d be lucky, not a filthy pod in a hostel.
Businesses are impacted by the hotels being closed down to the public.
Ireland’s knife crimes have escalated rapidly since the Ukrainian war and open border policy.
Domestic abuse incidents increased rapidly.
Prior to 2022, most people were happy with the diversity, the children all played, neighbours chatted, some of the Muslim children are not allowed to play, but overall everyone ticked along nicely.
The rise in immigration has brought out the worst in people on both sides. Everyone is on edge.
My niece is married to a man from Malawi, they have one child, a second in the way, he was born here and often gets shouted at to go home.

I name changed just to write this thread.

Being called racist for, ie, saying that women shouldn't have to cover their hair, doesn't in itself bother me anymore, what I hate on MN is the collective bullying - seeing several 'you've been quoted' in the notifications and it's all people abusing you for having an opinion they can't tolerate.

You are wrong. Chinese Muslim are ethnically different to the indigenous Chinese. And so on. If ethnically Chinese people worship Islam they remain Chinese
To follow the logic of what you are saying is that all Europeans must be Christians. If an Englishman converts to Islam does he become a Muslim? No
I know plenty of Muslims that do not practice Islam or follow its dictates they are all integrated follow western laws and social norms.

Referring to someone as most intellectually challenged people is a disability slur and just as insulting as a racist slur.
You used that disability comparison as an insult.

'I get that racism is bad, obviously, but..'

Your opening post seems to suggest that racism should be acceptable aslong as you do not take it too far. Racism is never ok. Saying that women shouldn't have to cover their hair is not racist. People that state that it is racist are wrong. People wrongly believing something is racist is different to racism being ok in any shape or form and that is why I think YABU.

Exactly.

And what is your point exactly? You seem to think the word ‘ slur’ is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. It isn’t.

I've seen it all unfold on threads.

What an absolute load of garbage. You try to paint islam as all wonderful and the west as all bad.

Talking out of your arse.

This thread in all likelihood is going to lead to just about everyone disagreeing and feeling insulted.

This is why I don't believe in discussing racism as a concept because everyone is talking at cross purposes, misinterpreting what people are trying to say or badly expressing their views.

I only ever talk about racism with those I'm very close to so that if there is any misinterpretation, we can just calmly explain ourselves without judgement.

You've actually just made my point. You say a Chinese person who follows Islam 'remains Chinese'. Exactly, because ethnicity doesn't change with religion.

But then you say an Englishman who converts to Islam doesn't become a Muslim, which only works if 'Muslim' is an ethnicity, the very thing you agreed it isn't a sentence earlier. An Englishman who converts to Islam is a Muslim.

To give you some more examples:

• A Chinese Muslim can be ethnically Chinese and religiously Muslim.
• An Albanian Muslim can be ethnically Albanian and religiously Muslim.
• An English Muslim can be ethnically English, and white, and religiously Muslim.

Lets just look in a dictionary:

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/muslim

"A Muslim is someone who believes in Islam and lives according to its rules."

The word "Muslim" refers to adherence to Islam, not ethnicity. This isn't something debatable, this is just fact.

My point is people only care when it affects them. Reading that comment offended me as I have family with profound learning disabilities/intellectual challenges and I found it disgusting and in poor taste.
When all discrimination is treated the same then I will respect it but all the time someone can say something that derogatory as to compare someone to another human beings condition then I won’t be tiptoeing around making sure not to offend other religions/races because that’s not equality at all, it’s just saying well those feelings aren’t as valid despite being just as hurtful.

A new style of racism had to be invented? Get a grip. You have obviously never been on the receiving end of subtle insidious racism or discrimination.

As for the original point, if the murderer was a white man and the police had taken the same exact claim at face value, then it would be assumed they have acted wrongly and made a gross error. But purely because the murderer is NOT white, his race absolutely must be the number one reason why police believed him.

How about it’s crazy behaviour to claim you’re the victim when you’re the attacker and the police completely failed to recognise this as the behaviour of a madman and reacted in panic instead of investigating the immediate scene calmly?

It’s exactly the same issue with those boys who committed rape in Fordingham. They had previously been reported for incidents of violence, sexual aggression and animal abuse but the police had not recorded anything and let them go each time. That meant their history was not raised in the rape case. Had they been black or brown boys, those very same police taking those very same actions would have been accused of being too afraid of being called racist. The same police errors and actions are framed differently when it’s a white vs non-white attacker.

This is all just people wanting to spin a tragedy to aid their own racial / political agenda.

This is what happens when minorities have been given the loudest voices and platforms to shout them from. The Government and Police are walking on eggshells round them, hence this mess.

Are footballers out bending their knees for Henry Novak? They wouldn't dare.

People may know exactly what the issues are and still legitimately disagree with you - I certainly have experienced insidious prejudice of various kinds, but I don't think it's helpful (in fact, I think it's counter-productive) to create a climate of fear around it. I'm of the belief that you can police overt behaviour but you can't and shouldn't police what people think, which is what the current anti-racism movement wants to do.

As for the boys who committed rape, they were from a traveller community and it is certainly possible that that influenced how the police managed the situation.

What a pile of horseshit. You must live in a very deprived area if this is your experience. You sound so very racist. I am quite pleased that Western men are not encouraged to beat their wives or make them cover up.
Anyone coming to live in a Western country should abide by Western rules and culture.

It’s a bit of the same.
Both sides see the worst in each other.
My DH a western man would never do the things that the poster mentioned as normal for western families, like wise all Muslim man aren’t honourable loyal husbands. Some don’t help their wife, they’re interested in fathering as many children as possible.