Rude, or normal boy behaviour?

[Floofydawg]

If you have young adult sons, how often do you hear from them?

Trying to understand if my DH's two sons are giving him the runaround. He hardly ever hears from them and most messages to them go unanswered. He sends them expensive birthday gifts and doesn't get a word of thanks. When they come back to visit (they live away from us) they prioritise seeing their mum. They seem to favour her even though she was the one who split the marriage up. He takes them out for meals and they never offer to pay.

I just feel a bit resentful on his behalf, he thinks this is normal for boys but I think they're being rude.

YABU for using the phrase “boy behaviour” it’s such a lazy excuse to pander to crappy men as if their biology means it’s impossible to be polite. They are rude for not saying thank you - that has nothing to do when with sex or gender. They are rude for forgetting birthdays. He should make it clear that’s not acceptable if it bothers him. Eating out not so much as I assume their dad earns more. Saying he’s a good dad for seeing them 3 times a week is a bit of a stretch though. It’s bare minimum stuff.

Their behaviour sounds rude to me (not saying thank you for presents) but don't make an issue of this to him. He is satisfied with the relationship so no point upsetting him by saying he ought to be resentful.

But you clearly think they should love their father more by prioritising their time with him, when they visit. Are these the only things that you think are ways in which they behave disrespectfully? Is there a general air of visits being 'duty' visits, rather than because they enjoy your DH's company and want to spend time with him/catch up?

As I said, I do think much of their behaviour is very normal for young adults and nothing to do with the divorce. Sometimes parents have a favourite child and sometimes kids have a favourite parent. It doesn't necessarily mean the other parent has done anything wrong (though it is obviously hurtful). Has it always been this way or has there been a sudden change? If your DH has felt a sudden shift in the relationship then, fair or not, it's up to him as the parent to work at rebuilding it.

I am surprised it doesn't occur to them to do anything kind for their father like remembering his birthday. Do they behave the same way with their mother? Was it expected of them from a young age to write cards or buy a present as they got older? I think if children haven't been trained in a certain way of behaving, it won't necessarily occur to them to develop those habits later. If it upsets him, he really should raise it with them.

‘have you rang your mum recently?’

comes across completely different to how you first made it sound. Asking if they’ve rang someone is normal. I think I probably got stuck on the word ‘push’

I think I just got stuck on the word ‘push’ that was used. It made it sound like he didn’t want to ring but she pushed him to phone his mum

They sound rude but it’s not boy behaviour.

I have kids a similar age and wouldn’t split the bill if we ate out (and think it would be unusual to expect that from kids in their early 20s)

I think it’s also common to be closer to mum than dad regardless of why the marriage broke down. You see this pattern on relationship posts too- mum is horrible and abusive yet adult child doesn’t want to do NC. I’m not saying that the ex is horrible and abusive btw- I’m talking about the women in relationships dilemmas. I guess it’s the biological pull.

The comment about your h not telling the boys about their mother’s infidelity is odd and I suspect it has negatively impacted their relationship with dad because it’s a strangely passive route to take. Does your h like to bury his head in the sand when things are tough so he can avoid conflict? The irony of doing this is that people will be pissed off later.

It is rude not to say thanks or bring/send a gift for your partner’s birthday. Also rude to ignore people.

It sounds like your partner isn’t as frustrated as you are and that having rock bottom expectations is his way of coping with the messy situation. I think some of the reason why his kids behave like that is that they know that their dad is expecting better and that if he had 2 daughters, it wouldn’t be massively different.

How would you know who's fault it was that their parents marriage split up? It takes two to tango. Would you rather his ex stayed with him forever even though she didn't love him anymore?

They're not giving him 'the runaround'. They're not asking for anything from him. He can stop sending gifts if he chooses. But if they prefer their mum that's their business, and you can't do anything to change it.

It’s not normal boy behaviour. It’s rude, ungrateful adult behaviour. They sound horrible.

Sounds like they don’t particularly like him or enjoy his company. Buying expensive gifts does not replace having a good relationship.

Tbf, it sounds like they’re not that close and they’re not that invested in a relationship with dad. Whatever the reasons for it , it is what it is. Your DH needs to decide for himself whether to keep going like this (because something is better than nothing) or to start talking to them/try and change things ,which could backfire, or not work. Then he’s back at option 1.

You don’t get to be offended on his behalf though.

Gosh! I have two sons, both in late 20’s. I’m in the ‘teach them well and let them lead the way’ camp. They are independent men living with partners, both work in retail with long hours.

They absolutely know I am always here if they need me. When they do I am at the end of the phone or a drive away. They know this. We certainly don’t text every day, is there a need?

Different people have different expectations and we are perfectly happy with our lives.

I am no longer with their father and left it up to them to have a relationship with either of us, so long as they are happy. I honestly wouldn’t want any more than that.

I hear from my adult children daily.

They very rarely have contact with their dad, because they can’t stand his new wife.

HE has to figure out if he is happy with the father-son relationships as they are or if he wants to do the work to try to change them. Your posts do sound strongly resentful, not just of the sons' behaviour now as adults but of what happened when they were children too (it sounds like they were 14 and 16 at most when the split happened - they did not have the full picture and weren't in full control of their relationships with their parents back then). If their dad also resents the past, they may be picking that up and distancing themselves. But they have no obligation to see him at all and they nevertheless are, so that suggests they do want a relationship.

If his ex provided the main home for them after the divorce, it's understandable that they are closer to her than to him. He can be honest with them now and explain why he was not honest before, but he can't turn back time. But he's best off coming up with workable, attractive suggestions to see them more, not comparing his time with them against their time with their mum.

Above all, if he wants to try to strengthen the relationships he needs to communicate and maybe - as the parent, and as a much more mature and experienced adult - do more than half of the work to facilitate the relationships, at least for now. Just for example, if he wants to give them gifts but is upset that they don't write/call to acknowledge the gifts (yes, rude and thoughtless - but perhaps more lazy and entitled than malicious) he could start giving them in person.

Not thanking for presents is rude.
Seeing mum more - pretty normal, especialyl if they didn't have much of a relationship with him growing up.
Not offering to pay - hahahahaha. I think an adult child is often much older before this occurs to them.

DH and his father would both consider themselves quite close. But they almost never speak. And I think it started when DH was a late teen and early 20s. His parents divorced while he was at univeristy.

His dad is a nice man but he's passive. He's never rung DH and asked him if he wants to do something. He's always happy to see DH but when we visit (we grew up in another country), he doesn't prioritise DH or us. He'll see us, and he's brilliant when we do see him, but he doesn't make any extra effort. He didn't come here to visit for 15 years.

It's not that he doesn't love his children, he's just always been quite passive about it. I suspect if we lived near by, it would be better because we'd invite him and he'd turn up and he is, as I say, a nice man. But he's never ever initiated anything, and that includes while Dh and his siblings were growing up.

And it does rather sound like your DH is similar. It's not because they're bad people, but a lot of men aren't good at proactively figuring out how to engage with their children or do things with them, or discover commonality and as a result, they grow up and aren't as close.

And he didn’t take her to court for contact with his children? Hardly surprising they’re not close when he didn’t fight to see them

You might want to read the full thread, or at least my updates.

You were the one who made the assumption your husband's DC are rude and disinterested because they're male. Not exactly a very positive view of men you've got there yourself is it?

We have 2 sons. One left home at 17 and came back for about 2 months at 22.
The other left at 22.
We hear from them nearly every day.
They spend a lot of time with dh doing cars up as a hobby.
We ho out for everyone's birthday, including girlfriends, aunties and cousins, mothers day, fathers day and Christmas.

We go on one holiday a year together.
Ds1 cycles and hikes with us, ds2 climbs and skis with us.

Id say we are quite close.

Ds1 rang up yesterday afternoon gor a chat and ds2 rang up last night on the way to met his friend.
Ds 1 and 2 discreetly pay when the 6 of us go out for a meal ( us plus gfs)
Im saying this because uou asked what relationships are like and in all honesty my relish my sons seems typical and normal.

Op your dh's sons dont sound great at all.
They should be thanking gor presents.etc

DS is nearly 27 and lives 200 miles from us, so we're not in and out of each other's everyday existence. But he asks for advice when he wants it.

Absolutely not saying this is what your DH does, but my friends dad, who none of the kids have much contact with, uses expensive gifts to force contact. They don’t have much to do with him as adults but he then sends an elaborate gift and makes a big deal about how they need to thank him and how rude/ungrateful they are. It’s controlling and awful to see how much it upsets her.

If you’re going to use that he had them 3 times a week to prove what a great dad he was, then having them that much means he is equally to ‘blame’ for how they turned out. If kids are ungrateful and rude as 20 somethings, that’s generally due to their upbringing. Which you have detailed was a lot him. You really what you sow.

This is not “normal boy behaviour” (what even is that?) but I think your DH is telling himself that to make himself feel better.

OP, do you like them? l ask because for me and my sister it was very clear that my dad’s partner didn’t like us and this significantly reduced our initiation to see him. We just always felt judged and scrutinised by her. If you don’t like them (which is fair enough) then this could well be palpable for them.

Completely understandable - my fault for not being more clear initially!

It's not normal boy behaviour, they may or may not be rude, but they clearly just don't get on and don't want a close relationship unfortunately.