Allow a play date where mum unapologetically supports children’s education tax

[GigglyOrange]

Just this really, our local independent prep school closed due to the education tax earlier this year and has caused absolute chaos for lots of families, including my own. My dd (6) has been invited for a play date with a girl she seems very friendly with and who seems very sweet, but I’ve since found out from another parent that the mum is an ‘unapologetic education taxer’. My instinct is to cancel the play date, AIBU?

I have tried to wade through your posts op, and have managed to get half way through. Apologies if I missed anything important, although I somewhat doubt it.

You have said (I think, although the stream of consciousness is tricky to navigate) that the mother in question agrees with the VAT being applied to private school fees. You have now (several hours ago) intimated that she wanted to have the school closed down. Have I missed something here? So she's telling your contact that she wanted to have it closed? Or that she agreed with the introduction of tax? Perhaps you could clarify this.

I don't have a problem with private education, and will admit that I feel a little wary of the new legislation. I do wonder what the impact will be on the state sector, which could be completely over-run and potentially cost considerably more to the gov to fund in relation to what they could earn in VAT on school fees.

Whilst here I'd like to give you some clarification on the unclean rough children who attend state schools. Head lice are a problem, as well as scabies. Obviously all of the parents, and some of the children, have drug and alcohol issues. 90% of the parents are ex convicts and stand at the school gate with fags hanging out of their mouths and arses hanging out of their trousers, It really is quite shocking. And parents shouldn't leave cars anywhere near at pick-up as they frequently get keyed in the very least.

Oh! sorry! I went into a wee reverie there! Slipped into Bad Education!

Yes, state schools. I taught in one for 20 years. It is one of the top state schools in the country, and results hammer many of the local private schools (The Times).. The children are from all walks of life, and parents are drs, lawyers, consultants, high profile business people, etc, and many of them are extremely wealthy. They choose this route for their children rather than the private sector.

I hope that's helped to reduce your distaste of the mere commoners.

Is this the latest episode of East Enders or the plot of your next novel?

I agree
of course

but that’s not what was said
OP said those paying £12k were not net contributors
Op did not say they didn’t contribute. I believe you said that

Statistically OP is correct

I didn’t read OP’s comment like that, I read it as people contributing only £12k don’t contribute.

So I’ve gone back to check and no
she didn’t mean that
heres her post

You see
OP notes tax recipient
a tax recipient can also be a tax payer
hence her second comment about the £12k

You cannot go through life refusing to mix with people that have different opinions to you. That is not wisdom. And not a good message to pass on to your children.

@ClassicHumous

Wait, what? Are you referring to C3 to C4?

If not, I’m not sure what might be considered controversial here and a topic of conversation on play dates.

Your child’s school only had 100 pupils, and was only charging £18k per child per year?

I see why it closed - that model is completely uneconomical. Private preps and pre-preps around here are £35-40k per year, and usually have 2-3 forms of 20 children. Which is the sort of income it costs to run a school.

Out of interest why didn’t you just move to another independent school? Let me guess - all the other private schools locally charge enough to maintain financial viability, and you can’t actually afford that?

I can get the point, that they cost more than the £12k they contribute (although OP doesn’t mention net) but I don’t agree with it.

Firstly, they do contribute but not as much as they cost. It’s still a contribution.

Secondly, they work low paid jobs. If everyone aspired to or would only work in high salaried positions then the country would grind to a halt.

Another thread, maybe.

I see this wasn't a wind up....
Crumbs....ermmm......
You seem terribly focused and invested in this school closing. I'm sure it's disruptive and sad and the kids will have to form new friends etc. But perhaps you might need to get some perspective?
It might not even be that much to do with VAT. Schools are closing mostly due to the drop in pupil numbers which is to do with birth rate and changing demographics.
Plus, if this is the worst thing that happens to you and your dd then thank your lucky stars. Honestly it's just not worth getting so fraught about.
Read some of the boards on Mumsnet. Parents with kids going through leukemia, whose husband suddenly died, who've suffered abuse and trauma, who lost jobs and are struggling to make rent. The level of angst over moving schools (and blaming some radom play date parent) is just not proportionate in the grand scheme of things.

Goodness, I hadn't spotted that. I was paying over £12kpa 12 years ago for my senior school child. The fees are now over £30k for day pupils (and his school is still running, although there are a couple of the smaller ones that have closed). How on earth could any school hope to survive on 12Kpa? No wonder they closed. Were they paying the teachers a decent wage?

Anyway, I still haven't answered OPs question regarding the playdate. No, don't accept it. Cancel it. It will be in the mother's best interest, although sadly not the daughter's..

Public school fees should 100% be taxed. Absolute chaos 🤣

Your daughter has started a new school, made a friend and you want to sabotage that friendship because of politics. Top tier parenting.

I feel so sorry for your daughter, I had a mother who wanted to force her opinions on me and mold me in to something I wasn't. It didn't end well with me, or her other 2 daughters. We all escaped as soon as we could and she didn't have a quality relationship with any of us.

Your only concern should be is this girl a good friend to your daughter.

Yes but she didn’t say anything about them not contributing
Its not the point she’s making
and yet someone commented that she didn’t understand maths ( words to that effect )

People may not agree with what a poster says and thinks but not everything they say and think is wrong nor is it worthy of demeaning a poster as not understanding maths
When clearly
They do

Don’t be so silly. Don’t let your politics interfere with your child’s friendships.

@Tigerbalmshark £30/40k
that's a hefty fee for a prep and preprep.
What area and schools are these because that’s just huge !!

Mine finished senior boarding at Kings Canterbury a few years ago and that was £45k

£18k according to the ISC is at the higher end based on average costs for preprep and prep

The only issue with OPs school is it was so small

How do you distinguish between a contributor and a net contributor in real terms?

The point that poster was making was that £12k is nothing to write home about.

You are doing that woman and her child a favour by cancelling the playdate! You sound very intense.
For the record, I am a teacher, I support the taxation, and I dont drink alcohol. I think my personality is far more pleasat than yours.

I kind of agree, the longer days at private school does cut down on the number of hours one can badly parent. Are you considering boarding school? Then you can avoid it completely.

Is your therapist's husband a Reformer? This strange intolerance to other people sounds familiar.

Private education should be banned because it's unethical? Just read that back. Is it ethical to ban something you don't agree with?

This is a good question and I think it is something people should know in these time. All working people contribute but it is worth knowing the maths.

For a family with two children, the state is typically spending something like £35,000 to £40,000 a year on your behalf once you add together schooling, healthcare, local government services, policing, roads, defence and other public services.

At a household income of around £60,000 the total taxes paid (including income tax, National Insurance, VAT and other taxes) are often less than the value of services received. That makes that family a net recipient.

At around £100,000 income things are a bit more blurred depending on lifestyle and spending habits. The household may be close to breaking even or may be a modest net contributor.

At around £150,000 income, most families are paying substantially more in tax than they receive in public spending. They are net contributors.

At £250,000 income the difference becomes much larger. Taxes paid by this household can be more than £100,000 a year, making the household a net contributor.

It would also massively depend whether your 100/150k is earned by one person or two

That is quite literally what the private system is built on!

Agree, it was just rushed off to give a general picture but your point is correct.