Allow a play date where mum unapologetically supports children’s education tax

[GigglyOrange]

Just this really, our local independent prep school closed due to the education tax earlier this year and has caused absolute chaos for lots of families, including my own. My dd (6) has been invited for a play date with a girl she seems very friendly with and who seems very sweet, but I’ve since found out from another parent that the mum is an ‘unapologetic education taxer’. My instinct is to cancel the play date, AIBU?

Well, it helps the other kids because it creates a more level playing field, when it comes to competition for university places and access to desirable professions where private school educated kids are disproportionately represented.

When access to private education and the advantages it confers (connections, superior education and facilities, a distraction free education, confidence, access to better universities and jobs) are determined by wealth of parents rather than ability or potential of child, that is unfair on all children, and entrenches privilege within society which is ultimately bad for all of us. You get a overclass of privately educated judges, lawyers, politicians, journalists, CEO’s, bankers etc. wielding power and influence over the rest.

It also helps all kids because if fewer people send their kids to private schools, those parents who would have gone private and who are proportionately wealthy, and prioritise education and (presumably) intend to raise kids who will also prioritise education, will be in the state sector, enriching it by their presence, raising standards, inspiring their peers, campaigning for flute lessons and raising money for the PTA.

I’m sorry that your individual child’s education was disrupted by this change, but at a societal level I think private education entrenches inequality and should be discouraged.

Political policies that are intended to improve the greater good, usually do disrupt life for individuals, while hopefully making things better or fairer overall. I’m personally going to be disadvantaged by the inheritance tax changes, because my PIL’s who built up a business from 2 - 30 people will be stung by it. But I still think fairer distribution of wealth is a good thing overall, even if I personally will be poorer for it.

I could send my kids to private school, PIL’s would fund it in a heartbeat, but I don’t, because I don’t want to buy a demonstrably unfair advantage for them, and I think a little reality while they are growing up, is probably a good thing.

We have an MP (labour so should have influence) and 2 councillors as parents in our school, and it's still struggling more and more each year, so I'm not convinced that your theory that if you had 'posh' parents in your school it would get the councillors to take notice is correct. They are on our school site every day and nothing changes for the better. 1 councillor is extremely vocal, smart (a lawyer) and is trying all sorts of ways to get extra funding but keeps hitting a brick wall.

Teachers are already massively differentiating their provision. My oldests class (year 5) has children in it which have reading and writing ages between reception and year 7, so they are teaching across an up to 8 year ability range, it's really tough. It used to be that TA's helped by doing small group work with each end of the ability range, but funding cuts mean there are many fewer of these.

No. It's in response to two things:

1. Claims that the movement of private school pupils to the state sector will increase what the government spends on education spending and "wipe out" any gain from the VAT.
2. The claim that any private school closures are entirely or event principally because of VAT. You would expect the private pupil population to decline by a similar extent, and the private sector to contract at a similar rate including closures of financially marginal schools.

I cancelled a playdate because the mother of the child posted on facebook that wine should have a 50 percent VAT tax. There is no way I would allow my child to play with someone who's parents held such extreme views. I would be personally impacted by this if it ever happened and I class anyone with this view as scum of the earth. When the revolution happens we would clearly be on opposite sides and I don't sleep with the enemies

You have been answering questions, OP, but you skipped this one.

How did you vote?

If you voted Leave, would knowing that the EU prohibits VAT on school fees have made a difference to you?

Not read the full thread but the level of controlling here is something else. Not letting a child play with another child because you don't agree with their parent's politics?

She agrees with VAT on private education. That is all. You should be teaching your children to be tolerant and learn nuanced argument.

Not: I don't like their opinion so am never speaking to them. Dear oh dear.

One of the best things for a school in terms of outcomes is having a body of students whose parents are proactive and committed to education. It's why schools that are able to select by any means tend to do much better.

The other upside of changing parent demographics is that a wealthier demographic tends to contribute much more to the school fund, which can fund a lot of nice things for a school. My son's comp has seen a huge impact from this over the last ten years due to parents priced out of private education thanks to fee hikes rather than VAT. Even a fraction of what would have gone in fees making its way to the school fund is a game changer.

Yes, I agree. We have a mainly very engaged parent cohort, a very active PTA, many parents donate to the school fund. But all this is still a drop in the ocean when compared to the budget cuts. The PTA did at least 20 well attended events, and that would maybe cover cost of 1 TA.

100% agree - I'm a governor at a primary and a (different) secondary and the funding picture is beyond grim, even for our primary which is fully subscribed and no classes below 27. A quarter of the primaries in our borough are already in deficit.

"Competition for university places where private school educated kids are disproportionately represented". It may not have as much to do with attending a private school as it does with their parents' education level. Parents with university degrees are more likely to send their children to private schools. Likewise, children are more likely to attend university if their parents did.

Love the satirical post!

I'm so glad you have said that as I read the OPs original quote and knew it was bollocks but didn't know the intricacies of how the tax is paid or the terminology so didn't challenge it!

@Preppyprepper

Why would you think that ?

1/
If people have the money they have the choice and many who are very wealthy chose Indi. as a matter of course Why…because they can afford it

2/
In terms of the thoughts on academic ability
Nearly 50% of private schools are academically selective

heres a Google for you with basic stats

‘ While private schools only make up about 7% of the total UK student population, approximately (48%) of all A-level entries at independent schools achieve A* / A grades. Because roughly half of all independent schools are academically selective, a disproportionately large share of the "academically bright" cohort attends them. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

Key breakdown of how private school pupils perform:

GCSE Level: Nearly half ((48.1%)) of all GCSE entries by private school pupils secure top grades (7-9), compared to 20% in state comprehensives. 1]

A-Level: Independent school pupils account for over a third of top grades in rigorous subjects like Physics, Chemistry, Economics, and History. 1]

Top Universities: Privately educated students represent about (42%) of the intake at elite universities like Oxford and Cambridge

Based on both of these factors there’s really no reason to think there is a lack of ability at Indis.

Yes I’m not just talking about going to university, but going to a good university or a competitive course with better job outcomes , where privately educated people are hugely over represented relative to their numbers.

Around 45% of millennials (the group most likely to currently have kids in the education system) went to university. 7% of the population is privately educated. So yes, if youre at private school you’re probably more likely to have university educated parents, but the vast majority of university educated parents are clearly not sending their kids to private schools - so it very clearly is wealth and the ability to afford private school that is making the difference to outcomes, not education level of parents.

According to The Sutton Trust this is the percentage of privately educated people in jobs with a lot of influence. Note how much higher these figures are than 7%.

FTSE 100 CEOs (UK-educated)
37%
FTSE 100 Chairs
68%
Senior judges
62–65%
House of Lords members
57%
Permanent Secretaries (top civil servants)
59%
Foreign Office diplomats
52%
Leading newspaper columnists
~50%
Top news editors/broadcasters
43%
Team GB athletes (Paris 2024)
33%
BAFTA-nominated actors / leading actors
40-44%

Eww OP, under no circumstances should you allow that play date, your daughter might catch - I can hardly bear to type the word - Socialism. The absolute horror 😱

Of course YABU, why on earth would you limit who your child socialises with on the basis of their parents’ beliefs? And especially something like this (I mean it’s not like they’re racist or something). Good grief.

Nah, I think most people just want those who are paying to use a business's to be taxed accordingly. And many want a dismantling of the school system

Have you explained yet why you dislike equality as a concept?

Love the satire!

😂😂😂😂

50% of Indis are selective so it’s hardly surprising that if you put academically bright kids into a good Indi that you’ll have excellent outcomes

Can you explain to me how you tax a child? Does your child have a private income?

Like the convent schools that some girls i knew who had failed the 11 plus were sent to. My parents wouldn't have been able to afford that and didn't believe in private education anyway. Luckily for me I passed but not so lucky for my sister who failed.

I think @GigglyOrange has done this other child and her mother a huge favour by avoiding the playdate. Everyone knows that children at fee paying schools are badly behaved little oiks because the schools would rather put up with their behaviour and have the fees coming in than expel then and lose that income. Their focus is profit and they don't have to follow Teachers National Pay Scales, so they'll pay their teachers as little as possible and just offer subsidised meals or even places for their own offspring. Result is you get poorer teachers at Independent schools who can't find work elsewhere and have to settle for a lower salary. And that's another reason discipline at Indi schools is poorer. That added to the fact that little Persephone and Tarquin will eventually inherit Daddy's business means they have no incentive to actually learn anyway, and so spend all day chatting and disrupting lessons or playing truant. OPs child will be teasing State School child for bothering to do her homework and revise for SATs and GCSEs so it's better that State School child is kept away from OPs child from a young age so their friendship is stamped out before any Trustfund mentality can take root. And all those Indi kids with their large allowances and absent parents (who are too busy at the tennis club and leave them to be brought up by the Nanny) just get bored of being ignored and develop huge drug problems to cope. Lots of money and time on their hands? It'll get spent on drugs. Everyone knows public schools have huge drug problems with all the hooray henries and champagne charlies they turn out at the age of 18. State School Mum should be thanking her lucky stars you are protecting her Daughter from mixing with such toxic influences!!

Ah so you don't agree with my sweeping generalisations OP? Maybe parents of children attending state schools aren't all the 'type' you've decided on either?

Anyway, must dash. I have a warm can of Skol and a plastic deck chair awaiting me in my front garden. Hubby best have put his string vest on and not be bare chested, I don't want the neighbours thinking we're common!

It’s VAT not ‘education tax’…. Loads of things have VAT on them. It’s not named after the individual good or service it’s added to.

Perhaps I'm not surprised that a straightforward post has lost you. Just read the stats on this if you don't udnerstand.
I'm actually hoping that this thread is not serious are just the result of utter boredom.