Allow a play date where mum unapologetically supports children’s education tax

[GigglyOrange]

Just this really, our local independent prep school closed due to the education tax earlier this year and has caused absolute chaos for lots of families, including my own. My dd (6) has been invited for a play date with a girl she seems very friendly with and who seems very sweet, but I’ve since found out from another parent that the mum is an ‘unapologetic education taxer’. My instinct is to cancel the play date, AIBU?

You really are unpleasant sounding. I’d be really grateful if you gave me a swerve although I’d feel sorry for my daughter if she was close friends with yours.

In what way does EVERYONE lose from this policy?

Also, no, I wasn't going to use equality as the reason. I wondered why YOU are so against equality? I'd still like to know.

I've already stated why I think it's good, I think the entire private schooling system should be dismantled and this is a great start. I've a myriad of reasons for believing that which I've outlined multiple times throughout this thread.

However, I do actually have a bit of sympathy for parents of Neurodivergent kids with even less recourse now and the lack of funding and support in the education system for kids struggling which sends families in desparation to look for alternatives. I also have sympathy for the kids who have to go through changing schools, it's not a fun thing to do.

I don't have any sympathy for your personal circumstances and unwillingness to accept the advantages you and your child have while moaning misfortune. I can only assume this thread is from a journalist because the idea you may be a real person makes me feel a little unwell

That’s not changed, unless you mean business rates? All that’s changed is children are now taxed at 20% on education and vocational training

Most educated people understand the contrast between these two very basic tax models. A flat tax is a very right wing concept.

Children, through their tax code are being taxed? Their parents, through their tax code are being taxed? Or the businesses that run the schools are no longer being treated as charities? Which is accurate here?

Edit: actually ‘flat tax’ usually means something else. Still very right wing but not quite this bad.

Can you outline for me how this tax is collected? What is your understanding of the closing of the loophole treating schools who charge fees as charities instead of the businesses they are? You seem to think families are being taxed directly somehow? Can you explain to me in what way the tax is collected by HMRC that makes it a tax on children themselves? And disadvantages ALL children? I'd like you to please spell it out for all the financially uneducated please?

Good comparisons.

Don’t even whisper Brexit. I mean we’ve ALL seen the benefits or are they disadvantages of leaving the Union haven’t we?

The problem OP seems to have is she can only see her ‘side’ of the issue because she only sees how it has affected her.

I’d love to know how far OP drills down into potential playdate parents’ politics, religion, ethnicity, etc. before allowing her Princess to experience the real world.

Its not everyone loses.

One of the biggest issues in state education is teacher shortages and underfilled schools due to declining birthrate.

We can't afford to have the state paying for primary schools with only 24 DC in the class, and secondaries taught by a PE teacher who's retrained to cover maths.

Much better for everyone if the private schools with the weakest finances close. That maths teacher who was teaching a class of 12 in tiny prep, goes to get a job at that state school teaching 30. That local primary with 24 in the class gets 4 extra children & extra funding, but doesn't have any more cost because that teacher was already there. That extra funding means the school can afford that teacher to move to upper pay scale, or to get a part timd dedicated senco.

Its much much more efficient. Independent schools take up a disproportionate number of good teachers on tiny classes that are better utilised in the state sector.

I think this child and her mother have dodged a bullet from having to hang out with OP.

I don't support private education, or the privatisation of education. This is both traditional "private schools" and multi-academy trusts.

I have an IQ of 140 and don't have any fridges in my garden... If that's important, which I have understood from OP that it is.

It is her friend’s parents who support the education tax, obviously not the child, who is too young to understand it. The "play date is with a girl she seems very friendly with and who seems very sweet". Whether you allow the playdate should be determined by your view of her friend, not of her parents.

Everyone loses because independent education options will reduce due to cost, school closures and mergers. State school numbers will increase offsetting any gain from the tax itself. Schools close, job losses from schools themselves plus wider support economy. Independent schools are a pull for big net worth individuals and businesses, that will be lost. Ultimately lower level of aggregate education across the board for children. Now all I’m asking for is the benefits of the policy, logical benefits.

So, to be clear you support the education tax as it dismantles the private schooling system?

To be fair, VAT is a tax on the end consumer, not the business - usually, if standard vat etc - it passes through the business and onto the customer. Charities may be different and independent schools are likely to be partially exempt for VAT which means they will not be able to reclaim all the VAT but they should factor that into their fees.

But in any case, not sending your child on a playdate because the mum agrees with VAT in independent school fees is still bonkers.

Are you trying to argue that by sending your child to independent school, you're doing everyone a favour?

Yes

Also it will still only take a small portion of private school users out of the private school system. So as previously mentioned it effects a small proportion of around 4% of all families.

But yes, I would like to see the whole thing dismantled, I'd like state schooling to be the only option so those with power and I fluence who want schooling improvements have to improve schooling legislation across the board. Whole the rich and powerful have other options they have no incentive to improve things for the wider population.

But you haven't explained yet why you dislike equality? Could you explain that? In details

Yes, but do you abuse alcohol and smoke in the house? The OP thinks you do.

Parents with children at private school also pay towards state schools through their council tax.
They then pay for their own kids to attend private school. Now they have to pay 20% extra due to vat imposed by the government. Private schools also have to pay very high business rates which puts further pressure on their finances.

You want to cancel a play date because the child has the "wrong sort" of mother. Are you serious? You sound like a fucking lunatic.

So the benefit is that schools close and the teachers teach bigger classes at state? Will the 12 children who moved from indi to state get a better education? Will the other 18 in their class get a better education now they have some independent children joining them? or does everyone get a worse education?
It doesn’t seem logical that we can improve schools by closing schools

I don’t get it… the child is “very sweet” and your DD is friends with her. Why would her mum’s opinion on VAT impact on your decision to let your DD go for a play date? It is a total irrelevance to the play date, surely?!?!

This policy was sold as a revenue making policy to improve state schools. If it’s really about dismantling private schools and closing as many as possible, which I agree with you that it is, then it’s going to be cost and not a revenue maker. Do you think people have been misled?

@GigglyOrange did you vote leave or remain in the Brexit referendum?

For others in the thread - it is important context. Within the EU countries are not allowed to apply tax to educational services. The VAT on private school fees was only able to be applied in the UK because of Brexit.

It’s a wind up.

I am not convinced OP is genuine.