Can we talk about NEETs?

[MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack]

Sorry if there's a thread already and I've missed it. But I want to talk about NEETs.

Apparently, we are potentially going to have 1.25million young people not in employment, education or training by the early 2030s. This is quite an alarming number, and it feels like we're failing an entire generation - both the NEETs themselves, who don't seem to have very much going on in their lives that might give them a sense of satisfaction or achievement, but also their working peers who will presumably end up having to support them via the tax system.

I really don't want this to be a thread with lots of judgement or criticism of these young people - it seems to me that we must have failed them somehow as a society. I also want to steer clear of party politics if we can. But I really want to understand why we have so many young people in this position right now.

Does anyone have a child in this situation who would be willing to share why they find themselves in this position? What are the barriers to them studying or getting at least a part time job? Are they happy with how things are right now? Are they trying to change their situation? What do they actually do all day? Are they surrounded by friends who are in the same position? What do they do about money? And what do you feel about the whole situation as a parent?

If anyone is willing to share, I really hope we can avoid a pile-on in which the young people and/or their parents are subjected to a character assassination. I would like an honest and frank exchange of views and experiences because I do genuinely want to understand the root causes of this issue, but if it descends into blame and fingerpointing, then the whole conversation will get derailed.

For full disclosure, I do have a dc in the middle of the 16-24 age group, but neither she nor any of her friends fall into this category.

What a spectacularly unintelligent take on the issue. Someone who is not in employment or training, might be a lazy layabout, but there might also be external reasons eg lack of opportunities, logistical issues etc or internal reasons eg health that cause the situation. Do you normally lack imagination and think in such a black and white way?

Every time you post about your son, I am so impressed. What a resourceful young person!

So many seem reluctant to accept work they deem beneath them

when I graduated in the 90s it was hard but i lowered my ecxpectations and worked in a call centre. Every job is a stepping stone.

start low, work up

There are fewer jobs and AI recruitment is a nightmare. I live in a middle class bubble and most of our kids have managed to get something. They have gone for graduate jobs straight after university and within a couple of years most have got something. It’s been a real slog but these kids have the advantage of family support and advice and know they will not be homeless and can live at home for a while until they find something.

If you don’t go to university, and keep on with the momentum, the path is not as clear cut for everyone. And financial privilege helps.

The world feels horribly complicated now. With the rise of social media, mental health issues, and so much automisation of jobs. It just feels like such a mentally unhealthy place for young people now. I hate it.

This is a weird question as every job seeker is struggling right now. I run a networking group for women in my industry and they are ages between mid twenties and mid fifties, all of them never been unemployed, and those applying for roles trying to change jobs are finding it impossible to even get an interview right now. And those in hiring positions say they are getting 200-300 applications for every role, 50 of whom are actually reasonably qualified for those jobs. It’s just that there isn’t work out there, across all sectors and skills levels.

add in being at the start of your career with limited experience and entry level jobs being removed by AI and automation and it’s particularly brutal to be young right now

I think it’s genuinely a bit tough out there, I’m a xennial and many of us had part time jobs working in retail from an early age, think I was 15 when I got my first job, my siblings and I did retail jobs/hospitality etc. I do think minimum wage is messing stuff up here, it gets more and more expensive to take on a teen and teach them the basics, you may as well pay someone experienced, plus the NI changes means part time work is disappearing. Thats usually the proof you can hold down a job for most teens going into the workplace after uni.

For people with young people consider apprenticeships, including places like the big 4 (they have programmes for school leavers 18yrs+). It is hard tbf, I’m sure there are a bunch of loafers but I think a lot of kids are probably trying really hard to get their foot in the door. The kids in our family have been a mix of apprenticeships into professional jobs and uni but no-ones unemployed. Your kids may have to look further afield and move to a different place as well to find work. I do think it was a lot easier 20 years ago. They have my sympathy.

Please claim these benefits for your child. They are there to help with the additional costs that these conditions incur your household and as they get older help them move towards some kind of financial independence. They do need to be slowly up for life when you’re no longer able to care for them. This is exactly what the welfare state is for.

Within my role working within Probation I see a lot of young people who struggle to maintain work such as a Warehouse Operative. Employers are getting more fussy about employing fast, efficient and accurate workers. They can be quite picky about who they recruit so if a young person with a criminal record and limited work experience, due to being in Prison maybe, may never be given the opportunity, sadly. Whereas years ago it might’ve been easier 🤨

My son tried for 2 years to get a job without success - probably applied for 100 roles and he had only two interviews during that time. Got neither of them. Anecdotally, his female friends seemed to be much more successful at getting retail and hospitality jobs than his male friends. I think factors include:-

• NMW / NLW / RLW rates meaning it’s probably better for employers to hire those with more experience
• Introduction of automation such as self serve and self order
• AI reducing entry level jobs
• Social media increasing levels of anxiety, depression, and eroding confidence
• Social media giving unrealistic expectations of huge earnings for not doing very much hard graft (influencers/ForEx traders), making NMW jobs seem unattractive
• Huge competition for roles - as NEETS increase, so do applicants per vacancy
• High cost of driving lessons - some can’t afford to get lessons until they have a job. Without a licence, it can be hard to get to many jobs. If they don’t have a job, they can’t afford to learn and it becomes a vicious cycle.

I'm so proud of him, from being a school refuser & not being diagnosed with autism until he was nearly 10 I can't believe how well he is doing & how much he has achieved.

I think because of ridiculous rules, they are not allowed to work from a young age yo gain experience and to develop people skills

I’m always surprised on these sorts of threads when people say about volunteering, because in my industry (law) this isn’t a thing. There’s been a massive push towards paid placements and unpaid work experience and volunteering is deemed unacceptable for workplaces to offer because it discourages equality and diversity. My OH is also a lawyer and his former workplace had to stop their work experience program because they couldn’t afford to offer paid placements (legal aid work so low income). My workplace offers paid work experience.

I think some people are trying to get jobs without any actual qualifications. You can’t leave school with A levels and think you can get a secretarial job for example. You need to go to college and take a secretarial course. Same with things like working in accounts departments - you need a college course. Lots of what I see is people applying but they’ve got no hope because they’ve not actually trained or worked towards a qualification. Degrees are a bit similar - unless you’re applying for a graduate scheme that specifically asks for the degree you’ve got, you can’t come out of uni with an English or history or film and tv degree and think you can get a job - you’re not actually qualified in anything. I think young people at uni are being sold a huge lie really. I think the university experience is a fabulous opportunity for most people but it doesn’t open up the doors that it used to.

Although I hate to say it, I don’t think young people are motivated like they used to be. My experience at work is that they leave on time and don’t take responsibility for what needs to be done (or even early - would you have dared when you were trying to make a good impression?!), and they say no to tasks that fall within their job description.

Clearly mental health is a factor and I don’t know why that is. I think parents like to blame covid but there’s still enough motivated, exceptionally bright young people coming through the doors and getting the good jobs that haven’t been affected by covid, so I think that’s a bit of a cop out. Resilience seems to be lacking.

Older people are working for longer - I think this is a massive one. Lots of older people need to top up their pensions. Both my parents are approaching 70 and they still work. My dad says that in his industry the young people don’t want to learn and take courses and become specialised. It’s hard to find qualified people for the work, so he keeps getting asked and the cost of living is high and it keeps him occupied so he says yes.

Pushy parents/lack of parental support is an issue I think. It’s harder than ever to get jobs now but some people aren’t encouraged by their parents. Kids need hobbies to keep their minds healthy, they need interests so that when they have an interview they have something they can talk about. Going on holidays and reading books no longer cuts it - you need to be part of a football team or learn a language or something like that. Many young people aren’t encouraged to do this. I understand that these things cost money but there’s a lot of schemes for underprivileged children, and for parents that can afford it they really need to see that they do have a responsibility towards their children to help set them up for the future - it’s worth investing in.

As a number of posters have said, the AI screening process is just awful. I understand it makes sense for employers who may have hundreds of applicants but I agree with PPs that have said it means good candidates are rejected because they’re young and don’t have experience etc.

It is a worry.
i have DC in that age group. One finished uni last year and although working (very) part time it’s not in a graduate field at al (basically minimum wage). So I’d say ‘semi’ NEET as she’s not lived up to her educational potential at all and probably never will.

DS id about to graduate - he’s extremely clever, personable, good looking (when he makes an effort w his hair/beard), but I do worry about him. His MH has never been great, there were times at uni we thought he wouldn’t make it through, but he did.
He’s not started to job hunt yet, he had enough to cope with at uni already without the stress of that, so we will see.

That’s just my personal circumstances but overall i think degrees have become massively undervalued now uni is seen as the default path,

AI has taken away a lot of entry level roles or made them more efficient so fewer staff are needed, the economy is shite so pubs/shops are closing or not hiring.

Theres an epidemic of poor mental health since Covid (I know so many young people affected from some who barely get out of bed to those who just struggle in general and are socially awkward due to anxiety.

A large part of this in my opinion is the fact we have too many graduates with mediocre degrees being sold the dream that a lucrative stimulating graduate job awaits......

These educated graduates will not want to face potentially a life doing semi skilled work or retraining in a trade so do not want to enter the job market and see their dreams slip away. I blame Blair.

The irony & hypocrisy of not willing to educate yourself, eh? 🙄

But do they do those things because they are NEETs, or are they NEETs because they do those things?

The modern world has not been kind to socially awkward people. The tech has made it far too easy for them to retreat into their own worlds, further compounding their existing difficulties. Pulling oneself out of that safe space takes more willpower today than ever before, because everything is conspiring to keep them there.

I have one. She is autistic, A* student who coped ok with structure of school but dropped out after 2 weeks of university, hugely depressed. Doesn’t respond to any anti depressants, private psychiatrist said he can’t help any further . Really hard to imagine she will be able to work and leave home but we live in hope.

I pushed a small part time job and driving lessons at the beginning and she just couldn’t cope with either so gave up pushing. She has a very tiny online job which is just a few hours every few months which is a tiny ray of hope I cling to very firmly.

She has a monthly call with the job centre in theory as after 2 years of nothing she claimed universal credit. I’m hoping they may be able to help but last scheduled call just didn’t happen so I guess probably not.

Some younger people don't listen to advice.

DH young cousin asked me for advice on applying for grad schemes in the sector i work in. He wants to go to London.

I advised him that the schemes in the most "cool" sounding areas are heavily oversubscribed, so to do some application in slightly less popular areas that give the same training and also you to transfer when you have got more experience.

he only applied for the cool sounding most desirable roles.

i also told him employers have weighted recent grad roles towards cheaper regional cities, particularly the one he's been at uni in, and away from London, so there are more opportunities in the non london roles.

He applied only for London.

I lost sympathy at this point. He has quite an entitled attitude towards the sort of job he wants.

I have a dc in this situation.

she has a serious auto immune disease and uses a wheelchair.

she made it through uni with reasonable adjustments (one of her lecturers had a stand off with central services after refusing to move the lectures into a wheelchair accessible room).

unfortunately she got covid just before her finals which made her very ill and she needed to retake the year which she did from home.

she’s still pretty ill with long covid, and that plus needing wheelchair accessibility in any job means she is finding it difficult to look for a job.

Nasty. And unnecessary.

My daughter is in college but there is little support for this age group with transport costs to stay in education so this could potentially make it difficult for some young people to attend.

Poor public transport in more rural hours limiting jobs or training - mine have had little choice but to learn to drive as soon as they can.

Limited job opportunities for under 20 year olds.

Parents on low incomes lose UC payments at 16 for children not in education so household poverty could also be a factor in getting them to jobs or interviews.

I think we need to change the way you apply for jobs, now anyone can just email over a CV so you’re competing against thousands of people and employers can only reasonably screen and interview a few, perhaps we need to go back to paper applications so people only apply for jobs they are qualified for and actually want.

I have a relative in this position. Graduated a couple of years ago, hasn't worked since. His parents are both massive snobs and look down their nose at retail work and so discouraged him from applying to any of those roles. They also consider volunteering to be beneath him. So he just wastes away in his room day after day playing on his Xbox.

I've tried to talk to him but he's not interested.

The reasons are more to do with the profit-hungry decisions of big businesses than anything the young people are doing or failing to do, and the problem starts much earlier than when the kid becomes officially a NEET.

It is almost impossible for a 15/16/17yo to find a job now. It used to be that pretty much every teenager who wanted could get a Saturday or After School job for extra spending money as soon as they got old enough to follow basic instructions. These jobs no longer exist. Employers have restructured their casual labour force - people on benefits need to be seeking at least 18hrs a week of minimum wage work to avoid sanctions so the businesses structure their rotas to create lots of 18hr pw posts which spread the shifts through the week and the weekend and are incompatible with school work. This is a simple case of supply and demand as there is a huge supply of people needing these 18hr roles and the school kids don't get a look-in

Employers have no social responsibility and don't want to carry the weight of being anyone's first employer. I get that. It's much more effort to be the employer that has to teach a young person the basics of professional behaviour. That extra effort has a cost and that affects profit margins and that's the biggest driver, so every role needs prior experience.

What the government should do is use tax incentives to make it more profitable to employ the young and inexperienced. This could be with a combination of zero-rating the employer NI contributions for any employee with less than 2 years FTE work experience on their cv, and a lower employer NI contribution rate across the board for all their employees if they meet an aspirational quota for creating and filling roles with first-job candidates (people who have never had a job of more than 30hrs pw or who were last employed at that level more than 2 yrs ago) as well as offering a proportionate number of roles that are specifically created and targeted at recruiting 15/16/17yo kids to get their first taste of employment with hours that are structured for being school-hour friendly and the incentives enough to make it profitable for the businesses to do it right - which would include having staff with responsibility and training for ensuring the wellbeing and safeguarding of young employees.

Aside from mental health issues, ones that are able to look for jobs, AI has and will replace many entry level jobs completely. My kids are in the 20-25 bracket and they are luckily all at work. Not massively well paid jobs but at least they have something. I would not be in a position to help them financially if they didn't and stopped giving them any money once they turned 18. It's not easy out there but like I always tell them, even if it's stacking shelves in Tesco, it's better than nothing.