Can we talk about NEETs?

[MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack]

Sorry if there's a thread already and I've missed it. But I want to talk about NEETs.

Apparently, we are potentially going to have 1.25million young people not in employment, education or training by the early 2030s. This is quite an alarming number, and it feels like we're failing an entire generation - both the NEETs themselves, who don't seem to have very much going on in their lives that might give them a sense of satisfaction or achievement, but also their working peers who will presumably end up having to support them via the tax system.

I really don't want this to be a thread with lots of judgement or criticism of these young people - it seems to me that we must have failed them somehow as a society. I also want to steer clear of party politics if we can. But I really want to understand why we have so many young people in this position right now.

Does anyone have a child in this situation who would be willing to share why they find themselves in this position? What are the barriers to them studying or getting at least a part time job? Are they happy with how things are right now? Are they trying to change their situation? What do they actually do all day? Are they surrounded by friends who are in the same position? What do they do about money? And what do you feel about the whole situation as a parent?

If anyone is willing to share, I really hope we can avoid a pile-on in which the young people and/or their parents are subjected to a character assassination. I would like an honest and frank exchange of views and experiences because I do genuinely want to understand the root causes of this issue, but if it descends into blame and fingerpointing, then the whole conversation will get derailed.

For full disclosure, I do have a dc in the middle of the 16-24 age group, but neither she nor any of her friends fall into this category.

Funny how your focus is on the failed applications rather than the “walked in from the street begging for a job and doing great now” people.But somehow the first group deserves a generalisation about young people , while the second an afterthought paragraph at the end of your post.

No they don’t. Not all UK secondary schools have the exact same combination of staff. While most offer strong wellbeing networks, provision varies significantly depending on funding and location.

And for many what is offered in school is not enough or what is needed and should not be a replacement for the correct MH treatment/ support at the correct time.

Some of your views towards young people, MH and lack of knowledge as regards mental illness makes your role deeply concerning.

yes.
but he is looking at work.
i am looking at a different angle.
He is right that lots of youngsters want to work, but I could tell you which ones in year 7 will end up not being able to find a job.

Your reply is extremely concerning. Dismissive of schools. Another parent quick to blame.
i am leaving this now, as i work in a Saturday, as well as full time in school. You obviously have far too much time on your hands…

Wow writing off youngsters in year 7. How lovely.

I doubt you can anyway as according to Alan Milburn's independent review on youth inactivity, NEETs cover a wide spectrum of abilities and qualifications, proving that having a good education is no longer a guaranteed shield against economic inactivity.

I think there are many reasons for this.

1. Cost of living and wage suppression. Young people with no experience have to start at the bottom, but jobs paying minimum wage or even above will barely cover day to day living. Many people will see the salary offered and not bother to apply as they couldn’t live on that.
2. Mental health. The Covid pandemic had a big effect on some people’s socialisation as they were coming into adulthood and while it’s good there’s more mental health awareness, I do wonder if it’s got to the point where we’re killing some people with kindness. Telling people they don’t have to do things if they don’t want to or if it scares them, whether that’s working or anything else.
3. There are less jobs or hours due to NI and tax increases, which is hitting small businesses especially.
4. Immigration. Despite what some people say, surely increasing the population is going to have a big effect on this. More competition for jobs, making it an employer’s market - they can keep wages down and hire people who won’t complain.
5. As well as the above, there are more people working and need jobs. The retirement age has increased, more mothers work while having young children etc. This is different to the picture a few decades ago when childcare was less available and less flexible working options, so women with young kids would often have to leave the workplace or go part time for those reasons (and it was easier to live in one salary back then too). Also women used to receive their pension at 60, men 65 which meant many would leave the workforce at those ages. Now the age is rising to 67+ keeping older people in jobs for longer.
6. Unrealistic expectations. I’ve heard young people say they won’t get out of bed for less than £40k often because of what they’ve seen on social media. Many people have worked for decades and don’t earn that. When I started working I commuted 1.5 hours each way and earned only £2k more than minimum wage for a full time salary. I hated it but I felt I had to do it to get experience and make a start in the job market. I think some young people don’t want to do these ‘hard’ things, they should go straight into a middle manager role as they’ve been to university etc which is delusional. I went to university, so did many others, but we still had to start at the bottom when we started working.
7. Flexible and remote working. While I am so so glad this is now a thing, I can see how it may penalise jobseekers. When most jobs were 5 days in the office, you’d be competing against people who lived in your location for jobs. Now, employers can hire someone across the country - they can hire someone in a cheaper part of the country and pay them less than the ‘local rate’. With remote working, some companies are even hiring people based abroad.
8. There isn’t a lot of advice or helpful information out there about how to get in to jobs. Many go to university as they don’t know what else to do. There should be more education before leaving school about jobseeking and career pathways.

😆Okaaaay….

I am less concerned about the AI sift of CVs as humans sift in a very biased way too and just skim them.

But i do find the online psychometric tests, combined with situational analysis questions and then an AI video interviews where a computer reads out a question and you answer and then ai looks at it before selecting the candidates a human will to see - all a bit much for an 18 year old trying to do a really basic role.

One big issue is I practiced my interview skills by having lots of real interviews so I could respond to the people in the room. I did get better and better. But this talking to a screen which gives no feedback doesnt really let you learn. I feel young people are getting the learning taken away by AI in all sorts of ways

Its very telling the job my son did get was one where he walked in, they did a trial shift and that was it.

And you think writing off kids in y7 will help with that?

I could have a guess too(at even a younger age), but that’s why I work tirelessly to change that. Sometimes it works , sometimes it doesn’t, but I keep trying. While my heart breaks for the kid in foster care who ended up doing county lines despite all efforts , I don’t focus on him and shrug my shoulders and say “what’s the point, some people are just like that”. I focus on the ones having good outcomes to remind me that yes, it is fucking worth it, and someone has to try.

My niece trained to be a musical actor at university and now works 12 hours a week in a shop. My nephew is in a bit of a hinterland but is doing a FT MW job. My daughter is at university to do journalism but can’t find any PT work at all. It’s very very worrying.

I left school in 1978 aged 15 (youngest in year) as one of two pupils leaving as a NEET. Swanned around for a couple of weeks, one day I was chatting to my milkman who said he had a electrician mate who was 'looking for a lad'.

Went for a chat, was offered a job as an apprentice electrician. I hardly had any CSEs, yet i got the Job. That would never happen in a million years these days, good old word of mouth etc, long gone. I came out of the care system aged 17, into a bedsit, then self contained flat, then bought a flat (with my future wife) in 1984, then a house in 1987, by which time we had 2 young children. It was affordable, with some good but not impossible budgeting. Yes there were skint times, but broadly speaking, with some graft it was doable.

I'm glad my youth was when it was, I think things are really tough for youngsters these days, with little prospect of renting letting alone buying a home, leading to a seemingly eternal postponement of adulthood. I can understand why so many young people think they are stuck in a rut and suffering with poor mental health.

I’ve met teenagers who are running Co lines at the weekend who had a better grasp on Macbeth and Inspector calls than my child attending school five days a week and gaming at weekends
Getting a job isn’t always a preferred choice for some people. Sometimes there are more lucrative options.

I got my first “proper” job (in a call centre) while playing an online game and chatting in the community. Made a joke to one of the players whether they were looking for a secretary, she said she was actually hiring and am I interested. 2 days later I started my first shift(I was still in education, so not a NEET, but still).

I bet he could’ve done without going missing and getting caught in gang turf wars though.

I’ve absolutely no doubt he will end up being a very successful young gentleman
Assuming he doesn’t get killed, obviously

Interestingly I know someone training to be an electrician at the moment (or they were).
doing brilliantly on the course, grasps the complex real life maths on the course and the maths needed to pass the course. Apprenticeship all sorted. Great lad.

failed their gcse maths so retook, failed it, retook failed it. Kicked off the course and can’t do the trade they are very good at because they can’t do the version of maths for GCSE’s.

Has he been offered functional skills?

Yes, I agree. NEETs covers the whole gamut of young people from those who are struggling to find a job to those who would rather spend the day doomscrolling on their mobile in their bedroom.

However, as the UC standard allowance for under 25s is only £338.58 per month, they must be getting a lot of things paid for by parents.

This is a big change. Young people used to value independence, making them more resilient and eager to do shxtty jobs for shxtty wages as a way of starting out. But then with rents sky high, that independence is out of reach anyway.

People don’t know, or want to know that this happens and quite a lot. Friend’s son is in the exact same situation so is now looking into becoming a labourer if he fails the maths (again) as he can’t progress on his course , despite doing very well on it.

Just popping back to say @GardenC00k I appreciate your posts 🙏

They can be quite picky about who they recruit so if a young person with a criminal record and limited work experience, due to being in Prison maybe, may never be given the opportunity, sadly. Whereas years ago it might’ve been easier 🤨

I doubt there’s ever been a time when employers were keen to take on someone whose resume gap was caused by a prison sentence.

We are losing brilliant kids who would excel in trades because they can’t do the maths involved in passing a gcse. Yet they are perfectly capable of doing the real world maths involved in the job.
dh is a tradesman as is 90% of his friends, they barely scraped a gcse. That type of learning wasn’t for them, yet they are fantastic skilled intelligent people who’ve carved out successful careers.

perhaps the courses should contain an extra module of real world maths to prove they can do the maths needed for those that didn’t pass it. Pass that and they can continue. Just kicking them off is wrong. Especially when trades have traditionally been for those that are better with hands on skills

Thanks SixtySomething.

I actually do know! (This has been ongoing since the start of the thread! I've given up now!)

❓

Ermm I've never experienced a school with all that and we've been through quite a few, including specialist schools.