Can we talk about NEETs?

[MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack]

Sorry if there's a thread already and I've missed it. But I want to talk about NEETs.

Apparently, we are potentially going to have 1.25million young people not in employment, education or training by the early 2030s. This is quite an alarming number, and it feels like we're failing an entire generation - both the NEETs themselves, who don't seem to have very much going on in their lives that might give them a sense of satisfaction or achievement, but also their working peers who will presumably end up having to support them via the tax system.

I really don't want this to be a thread with lots of judgement or criticism of these young people - it seems to me that we must have failed them somehow as a society. I also want to steer clear of party politics if we can. But I really want to understand why we have so many young people in this position right now.

Does anyone have a child in this situation who would be willing to share why they find themselves in this position? What are the barriers to them studying or getting at least a part time job? Are they happy with how things are right now? Are they trying to change their situation? What do they actually do all day? Are they surrounded by friends who are in the same position? What do they do about money? And what do you feel about the whole situation as a parent?

If anyone is willing to share, I really hope we can avoid a pile-on in which the young people and/or their parents are subjected to a character assassination. I would like an honest and frank exchange of views and experiences because I do genuinely want to understand the root causes of this issue, but if it descends into blame and fingerpointing, then the whole conversation will get derailed.

For full disclosure, I do have a dc in the middle of the 16-24 age group, but neither she nor any of her friends fall into this category.

A few people have mentioned driving. My dd passed at 17 but it was very expensive. I changed my car so she could drive around to practice and lessons were £70 a week. Plus all the difficulties getting a test slot.
Not sure what stats are but learning to drive is definitely not common at 17 and we are in a pretty affluent area.
If you can’t drive it limits times you can apply for.

How is it judgey? If you’re expecting the taxpayer to pay for not one but both of your grown adult children as they work on and off for life, then it’s very much a debate we are entitled to have.

I'm not sure support was always better but there may have been more jobs which required less social interaction, were less full of bright lights & overstimulation etc

There are reasons these may have increased. Older paternal and maternal age heighten the chance of autism. EDCs in the environment do too. Other factors too I think have made them more common.

Found some .

In the early 1990s, almost half of 17 to 24-year-olds held a full driving licence; today, that figure has dropped to roughly 29%.

Then sorry but the business is not really viable, I speak as someone who has two craft businesses, where if I wanted to make a good profit I would be exploiting home workers, which morally is no go for me. Sadly we have a lot of businesses that rely on exploitation as a business model. Even The Ivy Restaurant which serves extremely rich customers apparently underpays staff.

Full time NMW pays c £24000 before tax, but costs the employer about £29k, so unless your employee is making a profit for you, then no business needs another mouth to feed. I have a DC in this situation in the SE and making ends meet involves us subsidising the rent.

new unfair dismissal rights

• wasn't there any legitimate reason to strengthen these rights? It's a difficult issue...

But we also have far more working from home, reasonable adjustments and tech which apparently helps people regulate (or something).

well yes but a low wage /low skill economy is a disaster waiting to happen. Its not the fault of the worker but rather as a decision decades ago to push this economic model. Neither by the way should the State subsidise poverty wages via UC we need a reset, IMHO it might be time to at least investigate UBI, a view I suspect is not popular on here.

But wouldn't UBI just result in a lot of people sitting at home without challenge etc? The current situation is bad but I don't think a large amount of people with no need to work is a good idea either.

Agree. My son at just turned 16 was getting up at 5 in the morning to walk to the station and get 2 trains to college to study a very niche subject not offered anywhere else. He did that for 3 years and is now at uni studying a degree in the same subject. He has secured an unpaid work placement with a very well known company in the field he is studying which will look very attractive on his cv when he graduates.

This drives me potty. There are so many businesses that struggle with this. The supermarkets know o production costs down to a t. Every single hour costed is at NMW. All management time. Every single employee. They will not pay more. If we pay more it’s at our cost elsewhere. Every time NMW rises we get an automatic pay rise to reflect it.

Also, the deal with youngsters used to be it was a right pain so you paid them less. They forget to turn up, sleep in, waft about looking useless for a bit. Bit of management and 6 months grafting 80% have learnt to turn up
On time, crack on with the job and ring if they’re going to be late. There is more babysitting/management required than ever before.

Quite simply, the government and local councils have to adapt and rebrand themselves as Employers. Anyone of working age (the line drawn at some disabilities) will be employed in exchange for their benefits: Eco gardening, weeding; litter picking, polishing bus stops, picking leaves off the line, hops picking, etc.

The medical profession needs to draw up with conditions can be matched with what jobs. Until you can find a job of choice, you will be redeployed by the government into a works program 4 day week - 5th day you will attend careers advice.

The government will also turn its attention to agriculture and food production; growing hops, making beer, making wine etc. Why import lager & wine from other countries when we have all these NEETS sitting it around and they could be making it here?

Eventually NEETS won't exists and they'll be plenty of wine and beer. Enough for everyone at low cost prices. Gin too! G&Ts all round!

But your son is to be commended. He has looked at the situation, worked out what he needs to do and done it. That’s why he had an offer. One is all you need. For all my work I was offered 2 training places, neither exactly what I wanted, but took one - as your son has done - in order to move forward.

I hope you and he are proud of his achievement in such a difficult job market.

Not really did you get the bit about my son wanting to kill himself at one time. He started working, until he was made redundant at 14 and has been working over 2 years now, ( his third job) funding his Uni Maintenance and part of the fees I am loaning him the rest. My elder son has never claimed benefits.. Do I think we should treat young people when they have bad health whether Mental or Physical yes. Do I think we should support all people who are able to support themselves yes. It sounds like you are happy to leave people in dire conditions. My sons are lucky that I can support them for many that is not the case.

Some people want to cut the state pension. If I had less than I am getting now, I would be forced to try to find part-time work. How would having to compete against people in their late 60s/early 70s help?

You’ve not mentioned the fact that your scheme would generate a fair few jobs running it.

im in for the gin 🤣

I agree. I work in a factory. If the pension age had stayed at 65 1 would have gone, 1 would be going next January and 1 in May which would have freed up 3 jobs for 3 NEETS with another 2 over the next 5 years. There are quite a few in other depts and on other shifts who are also close to the old retirement age but, as it stands now, unless early retirement or death kicks in then it's going to be at least 3 years until those jobs become available. We'd love to have a few younger people there but if there's not the jobs for them then there's not the jobs.

My BIL is 30 and has been NEET on and off for the last 5 years since finishing his Masters degree. He is intelligent but highly socially awkward.
He lives off of UC and help from parents in law and does fall into the category of up all night gaming and sleeps all day. He has some friends but most online.

He’s spent a lot of time applying to jobs but all are high level or a little unrealistic especially considering the amount of
time he’s had out of work.

My husband and BILs parents are extremerly
hard working high achievers. I do think BIL has a certain level of entitlement due to his academics but I have also been surprised by the lack of job roles.

I think you’ve had enough G&T already.

They certainly didn't need to lower it so drastically to 6 months. That means employers will be looking at whether the new employee is up to standard around the 2 month mark which is hardly any time at all. (1 month to allow for improvement, 3 month buffer to counter risk of employee going on sickness etc and a capability process there before they tip over the 6m mark)

And twitchy employers will just dismiss at 5 months if new employee isnt absolutely brilliant at that point. So the bar for new hire performance is going to be much higher.

Employers are going to be so wary now of recruiting. Not all of course, but this new UD legislation is going to be absolutely dreadful for an already struggling job market.

well its not perfect but , it will be set at a substance level so no one would choose that lifestyle. It would also free up the cash wasted on means testing. Money that could then be spent on helping individuals reaching their full potential whether paid or not. The current situation is not tenable with AI taking over lots of jobs we need to plan for the future. I do a lot of work in the community and I take no state funds, I believe that is a reasonable option.

Thanks that’s a big drop.
My initial comment should have said limits roles you can apply for.

Dh recently employed someone who was repeatedly late (on one occasion for an important client meeting) due to “school run” - dh said this was 10am not especially early! and then was suspiciously off sick. The man was let go. Dh said if he’d have been forced by Angela Raynor’s Day 1 legislation to keep someone like that then in future you would never hire permanent members of staff.

They still haven't equalised the min wage pay rates, so younger people are indeed paid less. To me its is a job that requires little training then all employees should get paid the same if they are doing the same job as happens in Weatherspoons for example . There are other skilled trades such as hairdressing or plumbing, where genuine apprenticeships are appropriate.