Can we talk about NEETs?

[MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack]

Sorry if there's a thread already and I've missed it. But I want to talk about NEETs.

Apparently, we are potentially going to have 1.25million young people not in employment, education or training by the early 2030s. This is quite an alarming number, and it feels like we're failing an entire generation - both the NEETs themselves, who don't seem to have very much going on in their lives that might give them a sense of satisfaction or achievement, but also their working peers who will presumably end up having to support them via the tax system.

I really don't want this to be a thread with lots of judgement or criticism of these young people - it seems to me that we must have failed them somehow as a society. I also want to steer clear of party politics if we can. But I really want to understand why we have so many young people in this position right now.

Does anyone have a child in this situation who would be willing to share why they find themselves in this position? What are the barriers to them studying or getting at least a part time job? Are they happy with how things are right now? Are they trying to change their situation? What do they actually do all day? Are they surrounded by friends who are in the same position? What do they do about money? And what do you feel about the whole situation as a parent?

If anyone is willing to share, I really hope we can avoid a pile-on in which the young people and/or their parents are subjected to a character assassination. I would like an honest and frank exchange of views and experiences because I do genuinely want to understand the root causes of this issue, but if it descends into blame and fingerpointing, then the whole conversation will get derailed.

For full disclosure, I do have a dc in the middle of the 16-24 age group, but neither she nor any of her friends fall into this category.

I think parents today are in a position to house their children, so yes they do this.

But going back a few generations, it wouldn't have been an option in the same way. My father was one of 7. There wasn't much room in the house and the older ones were expected to move out as the younger ones needed a bed (for example).

He did all kinds of casual work, much of it dirty/dangerous. Eventually he emigrated to find secure work on building sites.

It was sink or swim for him. Today's young people have a safety net. But the long term implications of this are concerning.

The trouble is, there is some truth in all of the reasons, but any solution will just be a lazy sticking plaster that doesn't help anyone.

As a teacher, pretty much all of YNt kids you ask at 16 have some kind of idea about working. Especially the ones who hate school. The ones who like school are more vague, presumably because they know (like I did) that can stave off actual decisions for a few more years. Yes, there are some who secretly know they're going into the family drug dealing business, but by and large, kids know that they will have to work somewhere. So what goes wrong?

From the other side, parent of a 16 great old desperate for a pt time job, there's nothing. Not even maccie Ds (3 in a 3 mile radius). He's currently hiring himself out to any oap in need of help, in between revising for gcses and living his life through his xbox. He will do any job, as will many of the kids on our local fb asking about jobs, but there just aren't any.

That is such a good idea about the Apprenticeships having a main site. The Liverpool City Region has one for all the local authorities in the overall region, but there will still be kids who live just outside the area who would be willing to travel for the right Apprenticeship I'm sure. A centralised system, perhaps run by the Job Centre would be a great idea.

Young people fall under 4 categories:

• those who cruise through everything. No experience of challenges, no physical or mental issues, naturally confident, sociable and outgoing. They rarely struggle to find employment.
• those who have faced challenges, who have issues with self worth, confidence, socialisation, but who have faced these challenges, built resilience, bettered themselves, accepted that nothing in life is easy for most and faced gaining employment as yet another challenge which they meet with patience.
• those like the above but who instead avoid challenges and find reasons why they they should face them. They value avoidance and self responsibility. Their parents encourage them in this attitude because they themselves feel sorry for them, have done so for years, so they've kearn to feel sorry for themselves. Their moto is 'yes but that's hard' and take this as 'its too hard for me to try'.
• those who are genuinely restricted in their ability to learn, adapt and try hard. They are limited and restricted regardless of all the willingness to progress in life.

Sadly too many young people have moved from category too to category 3, and too many in category 3 believe they fall under category 4. They think that everyone else fall under category 1.

As someone else has said, the number of people now working past what used to be retirement age is roughly 1.5 million. So we know who's got the jobs.

We're also in a recession, but no one wants to admit that.

Alongside this, the university lie. None of my adult kids or wider family went to uni - DH is a uni lecturer and I'm a teacher so we knew exactly what was coming down the line.

Actually, I correct myself, one went to uni and continued to do an MA, now works behind the counter in a cinema. The rest of them between the age of 18 - 35 (with no student loan repayments):

Social worker
Operations manager
Accountant
Mechanic
Tree surgeon
Army - soon to also be a mechanic
Police
Plumber

What we really need is a spark, so currently trying to persuade a grandchild to do that.

Incidentally, I was asking kids at the school where I teach what they do for money. What I learned is that when you're poor in a rich town, you pretty much make your own luck. My favourite was 'Two bins for a fiver'. He's only 12 but he's out there, cycling to the posh areas, washing people's bins, getting his spending money. Fair play to the lad.

We had a young lad of that kind of age call round to ours offering to do similar odd jobs.

Fair play to him, these kids will be absolutely fine.

Reading the start of your post, I thought you were going to blame parents full stop but you totally turned it around in your second sentence. I love what your sister (and you) have done to support your children.

I have 2 DC in the age bracket, neither are NEET (or neat for that matter!) but I am worried DS1 won't be able to find enough work to launch. He is about to finish a college course, the world is theoretically now his oyster, but a part time kitchen job is not really going to allow him to flourish.

Your post has helped me to realise that taking a longer view is ok, and the dreaded "helping your kids" <even though they are 18> has to be acceptable in this day and age.
One of my strengths is scouring the internet for jobs, so I'll keep doing that, rather than leaving DS to get on with it - which will basically mean he sends positive vibes out into the universe but does very little actual applying.

I like the general supportive feeling on this thread, I think parents and young people need this right now.

From my time reading and contributing to Mumsnet

1. There are a lot of time poor people
2. There are a lot of women who do not want interactions with males
3. There are a lot of people who lack skills such as pairing, decorating, assembling furniture.
4. There are a lot of young people, guessing 50% female looking for work..

Can you see the thinking for a business opportunity?

Many thanks 🙂Not to worry. Easy to misunderstand on these threads !

This is it. It's primarily the economy, for some of us from poorer areas with fewer jobs it's always been hard to find work so we had to move around. Now that it's affecting more people and cruciallyz middle class families it's being talked about more.
You also have the generous welfare state, which I'm not against, that traps a lot of people by making them accustomed to a comfortable life without the hassle of work or trying to find it. Once you're diagnosed with debilitating anxiety and having your costs covered by PIP and UC, where is the motivation to better yourself?

These are the two big reasons.

All of this - my DD went to a college where she needed to catch a train. We are rural, so as well as having to facilitate lifts to the station, I had to pay almost £200 a month for her travel pass for 2 years.

We are lucky enough that our work situation meant we could facilitate the lifts and we could afford the fares, but for a lot of families, that would have been prohibitively expensive.

If we had lived 6 miles down the road, it would have only been £90 a month, but still out of reach for many - especially with the gap between the level of income that would qualify for assistance and the current cost of living

I agree voluntary work is enormously underrated. Every successful career I've had (I've had 2) started with voluntary work - working for free. It's completely possible alongside a job.

At one point I had my own studio flat, a waitressing job, some voluntary work, and some part time paid hours doing what I wanted to do. Harder to get a studio flat these days but I see that most young people live in shared accommodation now into their late 20s.

Working life is also LONG now, losing a few years at the start of your working life isn't going to disadvantage you over time. But it would help if there was more support for young people to navigate all this.

My first job was a summer job as a dogsbody on a building site. Pretty much spent the day unloading lorries, mixing cement, cleaning up crap, making tea and any other random shit job that came down the food chain to me. It was early starts, hard work but paid well (for a 15/16 years old). Hated it first, as I was shy, awkward, not very strong, didnt know anything about building etc but after a few weeks I got accepted into the team, they looked after me, I matured a lot and by tthe end of the summer had saved a fair whack of money. Those jobs dont exist anymore, too much employer risk, too much insurance, need basic qualifications, specialist work wear.

Brexit is costing young people jobs.

I think the demise of the Saturday job has a lot to do with it.
It was a terrific entry to the world of work. And taught people key skills.
They need to bring these back. By some means or another.

You’ve got to look at the causes properly. Spain has higher unemployment and no Brexit.

A slacker, imo, is someone who simply chooses not to work, or undertake training or further education, because they can’t be bothered to - hence it is a pejorative term, @MsAmerica.

@MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack is referring to young people who can’t get into further education, training or employment through no fault of their own!

DD2 and DN are very lucky to be working in a restaurant at 17 having both dropped out of college. When I withdrew DD2 from school in Y10, we had one letter from Kent Council Council asking what our home education plans were. When I told them I had signed her up for online school they wrote again and said they would follow up in a year's time. Have never heard anything from them again, including since she withdrew from college. I'm glad really as college doesn't seem to be the right setting for her, but she loves working and has a great work ethic and has never missed a single shift in spite of attendance being a constant battle at secondary school. I'm guessing that they have so many other more troubling cases to attend to they don't bother with kids who are basically ok. Though they don't really know whether she is ok.

Locally there is so much focus on grammar and private schools, and all the non-selective state schools seem to thoughtlessly push everyone down the academic route also which certainly doesn't suit everyone.

In the last government money was poured into free schools/academies which, while seemingly delivering good results on paper, are failing 20% or more of young people. Then funding was cut, enormously for further education and adult education, which makes no bloody sense. And if GCSEs are so damned important, how come everyone only gets one crack at them in the state system, unless it's English and Maths, which until recently had to be done ad nauseum until the feted 4 is achieved.

From my experience of having a daughter who didn't get on with secondary school there were a lot of academic barriers to further study, like requiring certain GCSEs to do GCSE level study (level 2). The whole thing needs a big fucking shake up.

I wonder how much not being able to buy a first home or afford a flat have a bearing on this?

All the young people starting out volunteering or working odd hours need somewhere to live.

When I was at that age I could leave school, get a job easily and afford to rent and save a deposit for buying.

The young people in my family can't do this. Even rents are too high.

Even if they start off by doing 'anything' to get a foot through the door they won't be able to afford to buy a home as the average local pay for a full time job doesn't cover it.

my partner did this course age 48, and has been working for the last 5 years at the local council. He said that most people on the course were older; a lot were second-career types (ie not fresh out of uni!). Planning is an area where local councils are always recruiting, plus you can always go private or contract if you want more money.

@floppybit do the course!

And was a poorer country than us. We literally gave away all our advantages and a lot of wealth.
£30 billion net "divorce bill" and lost an estimated 6% to 8% of GDP in long-term economic growth.

Now our young people are paying for it without the added advantages that young people in the EU enjoy.

What's your evidence for this assertion?

Ok as said maybe it’ll come back and you can vote to rejoin. This is a systemic problem that immigration plasters over. If you listen you’ll see the jobs are filled by non EU instead.

The problem to resolve is why taxes and young people are so disincentivised by domestic policy. People need to understand what those barriers are properly.

If advisors just focus on what you are I don’t think it will be resolved.

Once, while we were on holiday, I was out walking very early around the small town where we were staying, and a group of young men was gathering. Suddenly a small bus pulled up and a farm overseer got out and picked his "hands" for the day's work. This was in the south of France, during the harvest period. I assume they would be paid agricultural day wages, simply because I did the same thing one year after university.