Have we, in the UK, become selfish, lawless and irresponsible?

[Commencethe]

This Bank Holiday seems to have descended into chaos and honestly I am starting to wonder what is happening to people generally.

This weekend alone there have been reports, tragically, of teenagers drowning in rivers and reservoirs, emergency services unable to reach one incident because of illegal parking, beauty spots gridlocked with abandoned cars, beaches overwhelmed with people drinking and taking drugs to excess, fights, weapons, rubbish left everywhere, police being called because a pair of teenagers were apparently having sex openly in a park, and racist outrage because a tourist attraction acknowledged Eid and invited people to celebrate it.

What strikes me is that this feels much wider than just young people behaving badly. Adults blocking roads and verges because they cannot be bothered to park properly. Families leaving litter behind. People ignoring safety warnings around open water. Whole communities unwilling to challenge awful behaviour because someone else should deal with it.

And every time there is discussion afterwards, the blame immediately goes to lack of education, the police, the council, schools, anyone except the individuals involved, their parents, or society more broadly.

I also wonder whether increasingly populist politics and public discourse have plays a role. Constant anger, division and disrespect towards other people, experts, authority and even basic rules seems to have filtered into everyday behaviour. More entitlement, less responsibility, less thought for anyone else.

At what point did personal responsibility disappear? When did we stop caring about our impact on other people or lose any sense of community?

It all feels increasingly selfish, lawless and entitled. Less consideration, less accountability, less self discipline.

Have standards genuinely collapsed or am I overreacting and being unreasonable?

Yep. We cram in then complain there's no parking and not enough facilities. We never say "maybe there's too many people and we need to change our mindset of feeling like we have to all cram in".

Days out ARE nice, there's no denying it. We all enjoy one! But I'm a big advocate of the quiet pleasure in staying at home too, and I think people have become so averse to this it's causing issues. You even see it on non- holidays, parents desperately trying to find something to take their kids to every weekend (and paying extortionately for it) rather than just staying at home and playing or relaxing.

I agree with you in part.

The tragic drownings happen every year and I don't blame the parents necessarily. Unfortunately teenage boys in particular are not good at risk assessment and spurred on by others, will make reckless decisions in all fields of life.

General public disorder and poor behaviour is totally out of control. People have lost all respect for each other, the community and the environment.

I am not at all religious, but I was brought up in the Christian faith and attended a church-based school. The loss of religion is I beleive is where the downward spiral started. I do believe that the church taught morals, respect for others and developed community spirit and that is exactly what is lacking in our modern society. I am not suggesting for one minute that we return to the preachings of the church, but we have definitely lost our way and something needs to replace it. I wish I knew what.

Very simply - Covid. People felt fucked over from every angle so left it with a very different mentality. It wasn’t as though it was only the government that was to blame, at an individual level there was discord between neighbours and community members (pretty much shades of Nazi neighbour surveillance, no longer being able to trust your community etc). So, when people came out of it, that aspect coloured how they moved forward.

that’s irrelevant. The infrastructure of villages, towns and cities hasn’t kept up to speed with our population demographic.
we recently had a new hospital built. Planning only allowed for X number of cars, despite staff warning there would not be enough parking for staff or patients it was ignored. Yep you’ve guessed it the staff were right, patients complained and the staff carpark was repurposed for patient parking. now staff are pissing off the locals, by parking on the side roads and housing developments within a mile radius of the hospital.
Our wild beauty spots, only ever had sufficient parking for when they were created. Our roads were never designed to take the size of modern cars. New roads and housing estates simply aren’t designed for the modern cars, because cars are seen as the environmental enemy. The thing is, until there is a decent replacement for the car, car ownership will increase. Beeching and his rail cuts were extremely short sighted, but, so it would seem are many of his predecessors.

The church has historically been a dangerous place for many young people

Further evidence of the erosion of the social contract, I think. If you feel like society doesn't give a fuck about you, doesn't value you or perceive your worth as a human being, doesn't provide reward for obeying the social norms, doesn't punish you for not so doing, then many people think there isn't much point in keeping up their end of what seems like an increasingly shitty deal.

Of course we haven’t. Fuck me, what an absolute drama llama you are OP!

we are lucky to live somewhere as secure, safe and free as the uk. Try gratitude rather than looking for criticism all the time you might be happier

Lots of factors, but I think it's the cumulative - over 3 generations - of a permissive attitude in society in which we're all told that not much is our fault - it's someone else's, or Covid's.

I observed this change over long years in education. There was from the 80s, and probably still now, an ethos that students shouldn't be told off for things. I've taught in primary and secondary and once calmly and reasonably asked a boy to stop stamping on bumble bees on the school field - I wasn't shouting or making it personal - it was a firm but polite instruction. Another teacher rushed over to reassure the boy (ironically, a real tough-nut!) that Mrs CoffeeCanata wasn't really cross and didn't mean to upset him! Utterly crazy. It used to be fine to reprimand a child when they're doing something wrong and it used to be fine for a child to feel a bit of shame or upset when told off....but apparently they must never be made to feel these things.

But social media, the increasing fragmentation of society etc etc. I remember in my youth public information campaigns such as Keep Britain Tidy, or about the Countryside Code (dogs on leads, close gates, don't leave litter etc etc). But no-one bothers with these now because we don't watch the same channels any more...and I'm guessing here...it's out of fashion to presume to tell people how they should behave?

I feel particularly strongly about the lack of knowledge and care for the environment. Despite doing endless projects on minibeasts and making posters for recycling, so many people still seem to feel no connection to the natural world (you see it on MN - some people who think that anything living in theirgarden needs to be exterminated!!).

One disaster has been the dead hand of the highly prescriptive National Curriculum, introduced about 25 years ago.

It’s terrible so much anger, hate and devision hitting most communities now and no hope of change coming without huge changes to everything schools, benefits, parenting, immigration etc

I’ve stopped worrying and started being kind and treating every single person with unconditional positive regard, it’s can be painful as there are some right twats about BUT I’m trying to be mindful and kind to hopefully spread a little joy to others and give some hope

To be honest it's always been that way. You just heard about it less back then.

The answer is complex as there are causes within each layer of influence...(gonna attempt to add an image for the first time to illustrate what I mean.)

However, I think the two main causes are; that we have become a much more individualised society...(take care of yourself first because you will blamed for you failings whatever your circumstances) Much of that it he Capitalist model, but not all.
And also because the vast majority of media is owned by those whom benefit from the masses fighting amongst themselves and not realising the real reason things have gotten so tough.

Going deeper than that might become a sociology essay rather than a Mumsnet post...so I will leave it there. Lol

Yes I agree with this comment. They have let so many people come to the UK now that we are groaning at the seams. Busy roads, houses crushed too close together so neighbour noise all around. Can't get a GP appointment and god forbid if you need A&E. Meanwhile we are seeing all the shoplifting and a police force which can't cope thus encouraging more crime as people are getting away with it. I mean if there is no punishment anymore for alot of things then people are going to break the law aren't they. Then we get shown over and over how many people are arriving in small boats and how they are getting our houses etc before us.
Welfare is out of control. Working people are furious at being treated as second class citizens. Councils don't even cut the grass properly anymore.

So little by little we are becoming rats in a barrel fighting and scrapping with each other. All of us angry, frustrated and just generally f'd off.

Even our politicians seem to be behaving badly.

It might also be people have become very entitled since they got paid to stay home for months and months and now object to working.

I am often out and about during the day and am always surprised at how busy everywhere is. Not just retired people but people of all ages.

Also I think alot of youngsters just feel hopeless if they can't buy a house or get a job.

I think it's been happening gradually for years but it sped up after covid and now with unemployment rising, food and energy rising it is accelerating even more.

You’ll probably be battered for your comments, but you aren’t wrong.

I agree.

This notion that we can somehow defeat overpopulation in England, and an enormous spiralling welfare bill, with clever accounting and ‘solutions’ is utterly erroneous.

Yes we could become a city state like Hong Kong, and technically have enough room for everyone, but do we want this? The effect of jamming everyone together is like rats in a cage. There’s a reason nature has such a beneficial effect on the human brain. We’re not supposed to live piled on top of one another, with ever increasing background noise. And propping up the workshy and benefits bill by gradually siphoning more and more from working people is having the same outcome.

People parking illegally, having sex in the park and leaving litter on the beach is because of small boats??

Honestly kind of feeling like this after readings comments on a couple of threads about how people "don't care" about climate change, refuse to recycle because they can't be bothered to have another bin/bag in their kitchen or walk to the driveway to chuck recycling out, or rinse a jar out. Ugh 😩 thought it was just senior business people and politicians that were grubby.

The only thing I don't agree with is the open water thing, sadly there are always deaths during heatwaves because of people, usually young, not understanding the risks of entering open water. Even rivers that don't look wide or deep, there can be weirs, hidden currents, cold water shock. It's so so sad.

Actually might go and start a positive news thread with all the nonsense that's gone on

lol that you actually believe in acid rain!!!

It all comes back to one thing - parenting.

Bringing up decent children that wouldn’t dare swear, hurt anyone, be rude etc. If the car parks full and you sling your car anywhere, what is that teaching children watching? Again, having a picnic and not clearing up, teaches the children it’s ok to litter and destroy our beautiful outdoor places. Children learn what they see.

There is no excuse, no conditions to blame, no way of blaming friends, internet, SM etc etc. Its plain and simple rubbish parenting and they’ve failed to bring up their children well.

I agree. So many problems in the UK due to the sheer number of people and lack of amenities/public services to cope with the increase.

Your comment about hospitals is spot on. I have to take DH 2 or 3 times per month for appointments/treatments for his cancer and we always have to go early, just as a precaution against being stuck in traffic (due to congestion and roads being restricted with ever increasing pedestrian crossings, one way streets, traffic calming etc) in case we can't get a parking space in their VERY small car park. More often than not we end up very early meaning we're taking a space that others may need whilst sitting in the car waiting for the appointment time. Then, almost inevitably, the appointment is delayed, often not even starting for an hour or more after the appointment time, and then, if say an infusion, often lasting 3/4 hours instead of the planned hour due to inadequate staff to change the bags between courses etc., meaning basically we've taken a car parking space for most of the day when the actual appointment/treatment could have been done within an hour!

They have and it’s not becoming poorer or anything. People are raised with no respect for others or themselves really. When I travel to other countries people are picking up after themselves, children are polite, adults are polite. So called “oppressive governments” seem to have better society’s.

so whatever your life is like, it’s down to parenting?

you live in a slum in Liberia and are groomed into being a child soldier - parenting?

or is it just parenting when it’s minor everyday things in a high income peaceful stable country?

Why would anyone not believe in acid rain?

haha no reason at all!

I’ve literally never heard of anyone not believing in acid rain

Lots of that is farming land required for food production (unless you want us to risk importing everything).

Lots of that is simply unviable for building on, such as bogs, flood plains, steep hills, mountains, moorlands, etc.

Lots is in "protected" areas such as sites of scientific interest, national parks, etc.

Lots is in the "wrong" place, ie nowhere near existing infrastructure such as roads, public transport networks, utilities, power, water supplies, etc meaning it would cost an absolute fortune in public works and civil engineering to attach those areas to existing networks. Also lots is simply no where near the centres of employment where reasonable commuting to jobs would be possible. Likewise you'd need to build lots of new schools, hospitals, GP surgeries, shops etc.

It's why we continue to cram new housing estates on the edges of existing cities, towns and larger villages - so that they can be "attached" to existing infrastructure, but that's exactly what causes the congestion, difficulties in accessing healthcare, etc.

I regularly travel around Lancashire/Cumbria/Yorkshire and, yes, there are places where you can see nothing but undeveloped land for miles/tens of miles around you, but it would cost tens if not hundreds of billions to build there, attach to infrastructure, build the required schools and hospitals, provide the public transport, build new roads and railways, lay miles of new pipelines for utilities, clean & dirty water, telephony cabling etc., and once you've done all that, there aren't any jobs except low paid work in retail and hospitality, as most of the "professional" jobs are in the larger cities that aren't commutable from your newly developed hillside, so the majority of people couldn't live there anyway.