Have we, in the UK, become selfish, lawless and irresponsible?

[Commencethe]

This Bank Holiday seems to have descended into chaos and honestly I am starting to wonder what is happening to people generally.

This weekend alone there have been reports, tragically, of teenagers drowning in rivers and reservoirs, emergency services unable to reach one incident because of illegal parking, beauty spots gridlocked with abandoned cars, beaches overwhelmed with people drinking and taking drugs to excess, fights, weapons, rubbish left everywhere, police being called because a pair of teenagers were apparently having sex openly in a park, and racist outrage because a tourist attraction acknowledged Eid and invited people to celebrate it.

What strikes me is that this feels much wider than just young people behaving badly. Adults blocking roads and verges because they cannot be bothered to park properly. Families leaving litter behind. People ignoring safety warnings around open water. Whole communities unwilling to challenge awful behaviour because someone else should deal with it.

And every time there is discussion afterwards, the blame immediately goes to lack of education, the police, the council, schools, anyone except the individuals involved, their parents, or society more broadly.

I also wonder whether increasingly populist politics and public discourse have plays a role. Constant anger, division and disrespect towards other people, experts, authority and even basic rules seems to have filtered into everyday behaviour. More entitlement, less responsibility, less thought for anyone else.

At what point did personal responsibility disappear? When did we stop caring about our impact on other people or lose any sense of community?

It all feels increasingly selfish, lawless and entitled. Less consideration, less accountability, less self discipline.

Have standards genuinely collapsed or am I overreacting and being unreasonable?

It's down to a mix of reasons but I'll add #BeKind to the list.
Everyone thinks it's good to be 'non-judgemental' which is lovely if we are all lovely, but the flip side is that not-so-lovely people feel free to behave in anti-social ways because they know nobody will say anything.
I suppose it's a variant on "the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

But it isn’t accessible and in use.
Compare our population density to other countries.

Our population has grown enormously- partly because we are living longer. The number of cars on the road is enormous in comparison with say 20 years ago. My village has more than doubled in size in 20 years. Same road network. Bus service has declined rather than grown.

When you build new roads or improve junctions, it takes so long it’s too late! We’re solving yesterday’s problem.

We can’t keep up with the number of houses (partly due to divorce and staying at home longer when elderly), roads, schools …

I agree there has been a significant shift since covid. We as a family followed all the ‘rules’ and advice and were pretty isolated on and off for two years.

Personally I think there was a bigger group of people who ignored the rules and flouted them with no consequences. It kind of changed the tone of compliance as a group of people, something that has never recovered. Now I see people chucking their litter on the floor, ignoring parking rules, letting their kids steal. It’s like they know they can get away with it.

You sound positively ancient with that comment. I'm 50 and remember people moaning about other people in exactly the same way 30 years ago and resolved never to be that moany old person.

So you behave like an utter shitbag?

What about the violence? Scumbags setting up fights in towns via social media, coming arms with knives?

There are no consequences for terrible behavior any more. No social ostracism, no fear of legal repercussions. Lack of judgement is detrimental to society.

I was watching a programme with the presenter travelling in Japan and it really struck me how differently the society worked there. Their focus is on the general good and consideration for others and that seemed a wonderful society to live in. Pride in surroundings and personal responsibility that we have lost in this country too.

Day to day lives so miserable, that a bit of leisure time gets anticipated heights of joy it simply can't live up to. It makes people bad tempered, frustrated & determined to get their "well deserved break" no matter what, even if that means inconveniencing others. I think we need to stop & remember sometimes that the person dithering in front is 99.9% likely to feel just as on-the-edge, overwhelmed, overworked, exhausted & pissed off with life in general as we are.

Maybe thinking that’s how it has always been, just clickbait, money, the weather is also not being accountable either.

It hasn’t always been like this and there should be no excuses for irresponsible behaviour and lack of manners, lack of caring for others. That is the problem, unaccountable and another excuse.

I don't think that these things are especially new. Haven't British people always behaved badly when the weather turns hot?

In general laws only work when there are consequences for breaking them and as the police are stretched this doesn't always happen.

@PrizedPickledPopcorn Compare our population density to other countries.

From a list of just over 20 coutries, the UK has the 48th highest population density.

The Bournemouth incident yesterday has spooked me to be honest. If you see the video, a hoarde of about 100 young people charging across families at the beach chanting 'stop the boats' and 'save our children', they are chasing one guy who they all set on and he is kicked by loads of different kids. When the police intervene this gang attack them, even throwing flares. It took hours for the police to disperse them. I'd never seen such a large gang of people all move together like that before, like a swarm.

I agree 💯!
Actually said to my DH only the other week it feels like our town is lawless !
People just do what they want and there is no consequences!
The tradedy of the drownings I don't know parents obviously not teaching kids danger about lakes ect ect
The government has no direction for the country this is what I blame it on and also since COVID people have become entitled!
And people being distracted by social media !

You don't know this, unless you know the families involved? Teenagers don't tend to think rationally and do stupid things at times, sadly this ended with awful tragedy, sadly they are not the first and will not be the last.

I don’t think any of it is new. I think we have a right wing press who need to generate income and have found that an effective way to do it is to pour bile and spit from every orifice in the hope of dog whistling the have-too-muches and have-not-enoughs into creating more rage and mayhem at which they can froth and pearl clutch. This isn’t helped by social media, where a lie can be round the world twice before the truth has had its breakfast and got its trainers on.

Edited to remove autocorrect

Eeeh when ah were a lass...all this were fields and young 'uns respected their elders.

In reality, a kid drowned on the canal every summer just in our area. A (different) girl in my school got pregnant every year. And every year people moaned about how the country is going to the dogs and it's not like it used to be.

When demand outweighs capacity and resources are limited, be that not enough money for day to day life, or not enough parking spaces, people tend to become competitive and blame other people for taking things away from them. They focus on protecting their own interests and community spirit goes out of the window.
Competing for spaces on the beach is actually a good analogy for our society at the moment.

What list is that? I looked it up about six months ago when I was getting frustrated about something. I probably compared with our nearer neighbours- Eire, Nordic areas, Germany, Spain, France. I think Holland was denser, maybe.
I’d been talking to a Hungarian about wild camping, which is totally normal and acceptable there.

People all want to go to the same places, because of social media presumably, so these places become over-crowded, people get frustrated, selfish and the facilities can't cope with the numbers. For example, I went to Durdle Door lots in the 1980's and 90's. Always fairly quiet. I see the pictures of it on a busy weekend these days and it looks horrifically over-crowded, just awful. Same with the Blue Lagoon in Pembrokeshire.

Choose the destination wisely and you can still have a nice chilled out time.

Yep. Wars, heroin, petrol shortages, global warming, acid rain (remember that one?) ...yadda yadda yawn

When Covid hit, people realised that no 'wealth or class status' would protect them.
I really believe the mental state has shifted.

The UK (who are most wealthy,) has shifted. It's a survival of the fittest.now.
No one gives a shit apart from their.own unit.

I don’t think the sheffield shooting incident is reflective of the uk though is it, since most people don’t have guns.

But when that demand is for a completely optional thing (i.e. a day at the beach), why don't people have some restraint and think "you know what, I won't go this time".

I couldn't tell you the last time I went for a beach day, because I know how overcrowded they are, how difficult it's likely to be to get there, and how much damage is being done to the natural environment by too many people. I'm very slightly sad about it but in no way do I feel hard done by.

Why is it so difficult for many people to do that?

I know one of the teenagers involved. I'm not sure you can blame the parents or the education system.

Just like many teenagers, this particular one was rarely listening to advice. It was a tragedy and I feel for the friends and family, and the witnesses.

But teenagers have always pushed boundaries, and always will. For many, it goes well enough, but for a few, something will go wrong.

I've been abroad recently and there were far fewer health and safety measures in place in open waters. The consensus was that you were told once (for example by sign) and if you chose to ignore the warnings then the consequences were on you.

Back to the OP's topic, the short answer is yes. People are far more selfish and self-centred.

I lay the blame on increased social media obsession, making everyone think they're special and an exception in some ways. And we are agreeing with this now, from a young age. Individualistic parenting, thousands of adjustments mandated in schools to account for absolutely everything in order to raise grades (I am neurodivergent and in my day, just had to fit in), more neurodivergence diagnoses than ever before, more people demanding adjustments at work and from companies.

It began before Covid, but isolation and reliance on social media during that time amplified it hugely. Current 20-30s were raised under the "everyone's a winner and deserves a medal" mentality of the early 2000s. And it shows, and carries on into their parenting style.

On top of that, selfish behaviour often wins. How many times have people been challenged when they pushed in front of you in a queue, and how often have you just tutted and let their cheeky behaviour pass? How often have people been appeased by demanding to speak to a manager when they didn't get their way? How often do parents threaten schools with Ofsted if their child isn't allowed to move class/ a sanction isn't removed and get away with it? How often have people in the car next to you been on phones or speeding significantly and no one cared?

Those who shout the loudest get their way, leaving those of us working within the rules defined by society behind. People learn not to play by the rules when they see others gaining an advantage and having more fun/ having more money/ getting what they want.

If you want to go wild camping come and live in Scotland. It's England that is overcrowded. England would rank 18th on the world list, Scotland around 115th.

England is the most densely populated country in the UK, with roughly 438 people per square kilometer. Wales follows with 151 people per square kilometer, while Scotland is the most sparsely populated, with only 70 people per square kilometer

Totally agree with you OP.

Social Media and Covid seem to have totally destroyed many people's willingness to abide by any of the code for decent behaviour that makes life tolerable.

I watch very little TV but yesterday I was disproportionately upset by an advert - for F and F I think the brand was. I was thinking how absolutely in love with herself the featured woman was and how totally unappealing and off putting that was but it was the whispered final line ' It's all about me" that really got me. Yes that is the approach to life so many people have now and the fact it is being presented as a good attitude and a good goal is just so depressing.