AIBU to just tell my mum her judgement is pushing my brother away?

[Henristoycat]

Good morning all,
This week my mum is staying with us, and I have already in the first few days heard non-stop about her opinions of and issues with my brother, his wife and the life they live.
For context my brother is 36, he is married, has 2 children and lives a very nice life, you would think any parent would be delighted, however not my mum.
I have gotten quite lucky in that my idea of a good life happens to align with hers so I don’t face half the scrutiny my brother and his wife do.
I will note some of the issues

• My brother’s wife doesn’t work, and really never has. She is from a wealthy family, they are mortgage free thanks to her family. She completed her degree, two masters, worked briefly for a year and then had their first child and is a stay at home mum. She has various side projects, is extremely intelligent and a good mother. I don’t personally think it is anyone’s business how a family makes money if at the end of the day, they can support themselves, and provide their children with all they need.
• They live in a flat in a city centre, my mum fundamentally believes children should be raised in small villages or towns, with plentiful access to outdoor space, gardens, large homes. Again I don’t think one is inherently better than the other, both have their pros and cons. The children live near some of the best parks in London and aren’t exactly lacking in opportunities to play outside.
• My brother and his wife have hobbies …. Yes really that is a problem. His wife plays tennis, my brother golfs, they both occasionally enjoy playing poker (this hasn’t threatened their finances to my knowledge). My mum believes that it is poor parenting to leave the children with a babysitter occasionally to “indulge” in hobbies.
• They don’t visit her often, and don’t let her visit. To be honest I imagine this is because she is so bloody judgemental and is constantly criticising them. She also refuses to stay in their flat as you have to climb stairs so gets a hotel, but then complains she can’t navigate London alone so one of them have to go and get her each morning, walk her back to theirs and do the same in the evening.

She is insisting I to my brother and see if I can “sort him out” as he has clearly chosen his wife badly, raising his children badly and is hurting her.
She has now said as I refused to talk to him, I must agree with him and we have both let her down and she doesn’t know where she has gone wrong!
My dad thinks I should just say I will talk to him so she will stop asking, then not act on it, I think it’s pointless to say that.
What I actually want to do is tell her perhaps they keep a distance because she is so judgmental, critical and arrogant about her view of what is right. Both my dad and husband think I shouldn’t bother and that she might even have “some points” even if it isn’t technically her place to comment on it.

AIBU to think she is being absolutely crazy and after 4 years of listening to her witter on about how disappointing my brother and his wife are, to think I should just tell her, that her attitude may be the problem, not their parenting or lifestyle (which may not be to everyone’s preference but isn’t objectively bad)?

I think this is it, my MIL is the same. She thinks that were it not for me, her son would do exactly what she wanted him to do.

@Henristoycat - you mean your DB & SIL are intelligent don't you? You said the reverse

It sounds as if she feels threatened by the fact your SIL doesn’t feel she has to be a mummy martyr. Some people find the idea of women having any kind of self fulfilment completely at odds with motherhood. Fundamentally its driven by envy.

Your brother and SIL frankly sound like saints not to have kicked off at her. I would long since have lost patience with her.

I agree with others that you need to draw a line under it, if not for the sake of your brother and his wife then for your own mental health. Regardless of what she thinks of their marriage and lifestyle she owes it to you not to constantly dump on you about it.

I would sit her down and say the constant criticism is having a negative impact on you and you need to disengage from it. And probably worth adding that if she values the relationship with her son and grandchildren she needs to reign it in.

If that doesn’t wake her up maybe you need to step back from her.

I think I'd say to her that it's fine for her to have her opinions, and equally, it's just as fine for her son and his family to have their opinions on her opinions. If she wants to keep on making her opinions known and felt to the, and continue to suffer the consequences of so doing - increasingly irrelevant to them, a negative influence that they obviously aren't going to seek out, in fact, are increasingly likely to avoid - well, she can rock on with that. You cannot expect or demand that people live by your standards and creed that they do not share - at least not with any hope of amiable success.

And I'd be saying to her that I won't be 'sorting them out' as I don't share her opinions, and I don't want to alienate my brother and his family.

I've said similar to my Mum. Apparently I'm the one you go to if you want to hear a genuine opinion, not just an echo. It doesn't make me popular, but it does make me comfortable in my own skin and life. 'To thine ownself be true. . .'

I'd tell her the way she goes on is as if they lived in a crack den and is being ridiculous. I'd shut it down any time it came up. Where is your father in all this?

I would nip this in the bud. Tell her you are not getting involved, it is their business and theirs alone; and that frankly you do not see any problem with him or his wife. I would go one step further and tell her that if she isn’t careful she will end up not seeing her son and his children

Has she always been like this?

How willing are you to say bluntly to her that since brother/wife and children are all happy and thriving its none of your business to comment on their manner of living? And that he constant criticism of your brother is creating a rift between you?

Otherwise its nod and smile and ignore but its odd behaviour.

That’s a nightmare to be in the middle of! Have you tried taking a middle road approach and asking “why can’t you just be happy for them even if you don’t agree with them? Otherwise you are risking seeing even less of them”. It may make her think, but she does sound entrenched in her views.

other than that I think I’d be very honest with her and tell her of course with her criticising they won’t have a close relationship. She needs to let them be adults and stop being so critical. I wouldn’t forever listen to her on this topic. My MIL was the same and would criticise another of her sons and their wife to me. I shut her down and told her I’m not interested. Harsh, but it shut her up and caused less problems in the long run.

"No mum, I don't agree with any of your criticisms of db's way of life, and even if I did I wouldn't think it was my place to tell a grown man, old enough to have a wife and kids, how to live." What's so hard about that?

And maybe add that DB would perhaps want to spend more time with her if she'd drop the sneaky putdowns.

Perhaps even add that millions of people, a lot of them presumably less intelligent than her, some of them not even adults or people who speak / read English well, negotiate London all by themselves all day every day, and perhaps it's time for her to stop being silly and get on with it. Advise her to do what I do (due to risk of phone snatchers) and use an old-style A-Z. Or even buy her one.

“If he’s happy, I’m happy, mum. Sorry, you need to back off.”

Their life sounds awesome. What a balance they have achieved and if they can afford 2 kids in London and his wife freelancing and not working full time then they're extremely well off compared to some raising kids in sleepy villages.

It sounds like she won't change but ehat can change is how much she exposes you to her personal views, and stops putting pressure on you. She's all for a bucolic traditional raising of kids but has she forgotten the old saying if you've nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all? She's creating issues where there are none.

As to her daughter in law, how ride of her to judge. You can achieve academic success and still take time out from aa career to raise your children, and childcare cost in London is huge.

So so rude to your SIL. My sister has a degree, 2 x masters and a PHD in biology and is now a sahm to 2 kids. I cannot fathom anyone looking down at her for choosing to spend so much time educating herself, then having children and wanting to raise them. The information and intelligence doesn't dissipate, your mum sounds like my mum tbh in that negativity is entrenched and passive aggressive comments about people's personal lives are frequently dropped, then she wonders why people don't bother with her as much and plays the victim!

Also you can bet if she was working FT the mum would judge her for that too. You can’t win with people like this unless you are barefoot and pregnant, simpering around your husband and family and totally erasing any trace of your personality.

You'd think so wouldnt you! But sadly 9 times out of 10 these kind of overbearing, interfering, strong willed people cannot take a dose of their own medicine....OP will be met with floods of tears, recriminations, sulks, and pushback, her mum will take it as a personal attack/.

Your mother sounds completely bonkers and an utter pita. I would not have the patience to pussyfoot around her. I’d be telling her to shut the fuck up as no one cares about her ridiculous opinions. And if she’s not careful no one will want anything more to do with her (and I’d mean it).

Is that a typo? They sound intelligent to me.

I don’t understand why you have entertained and indulged this for so long.

Whatever you do, please do not tell your mum that you will “have a word” with your brother to appease her. It’s not okay for you or your mum to be “having a word” with him about anything, and I wouldn’t be allowing her to think for one second longer that it was.

She understands why she doesn’t see much of your brother and his family, right?

It’s so said to spend your life raising a child, only to reject them and push them away like this later in life. All of this must have hurt your brother deeply.

I would be shocked if she wasn’t also similarly speaking about you too.

Sorry but your DM sounds like an absolute cow!

I think you absolutely should tell her straight, never mind what your spineless DF and DH say. I would be tempted to tell her that, given the way she behaves, you are surprised they still want to see her at all and, frankly, she is pushing you in that direction too.

Interesting take. Obviously this wasn’t a comprehensive overview of their life, my sister in laws family own a holiday home abroad with large gardens/a pool (we are invited to stay most summers so I can account for it being lovely). They spend a massive chunk of the summer there, this week they are away in Greece, in a villa with outdoor space, sister in laws parents live in the Home Counties where they visit on weekend, this isn’t children with no outdoor space access.

Babysitter 1 night a week depending, maybe during the day if they are going to an event together, both the children are not yet school age, and only in nursery a few days a week, so is an extra day with a babysitter any different to an extra day at nursery?

I think it’s fine that my mum doesn’t want to say at their flat, but to then insist someone comes and gets her and walks her back, get annoyed if they want to walk her back or there early/later than she’d like, is the issue.

Poker, I do get the concern, my sister in law has a relative who was a professional poker player, I suppose for some people when you have access to money and know how to play well (as unlike some other forms of gambling their is a skill element to it) it’s not all that different to another hobby.

However I do see it’s not everyone’s idea of an ideal life, it’s not my idea of an ideal life, we live in the middle of nowhere, massive gardens, we probably spend 3/4 nights a year away from the children and only when family are here, but I don’t think there is anything dangerous or neglectful about it, which is probably the only time family should intervene, not over opinion.

Oh gosh! Yes I did mean are intelligent! That will teach me for not proof reading.

She's meeting the consequences of her own behaviours and honestly, you'd be doing her a favour to tell her that.

Sounds like your dad has enabled her bullshit for years and everyone else has just put up with it.

Counter, so she knows you don't agree with her then move on. If she keeps returning to it, tell her she'll alienate you too. Grandparents have an opinion to n how their children are raised, not their grandchildren.

Just refuse to get involved and tell her that, as far as you can see, they are happy, the children are happy and that's what's important. Tell her if she can't see that, she has the problem, not them.

If mum is talking about your brother and his wife to you, I wonder what she is saying to your brother about you.

I’d go for “If you can’t say anything nice, mum, don’t say anything at all”.