AIBU to just tell my mum her judgement is pushing my brother away?

[Henristoycat]

Good morning all,
This week my mum is staying with us, and I have already in the first few days heard non-stop about her opinions of and issues with my brother, his wife and the life they live.
For context my brother is 36, he is married, has 2 children and lives a very nice life, you would think any parent would be delighted, however not my mum.
I have gotten quite lucky in that my idea of a good life happens to align with hers so I don’t face half the scrutiny my brother and his wife do.
I will note some of the issues

• My brother’s wife doesn’t work, and really never has. She is from a wealthy family, they are mortgage free thanks to her family. She completed her degree, two masters, worked briefly for a year and then had their first child and is a stay at home mum. She has various side projects, is extremely intelligent and a good mother. I don’t personally think it is anyone’s business how a family makes money if at the end of the day, they can support themselves, and provide their children with all they need.
• They live in a flat in a city centre, my mum fundamentally believes children should be raised in small villages or towns, with plentiful access to outdoor space, gardens, large homes. Again I don’t think one is inherently better than the other, both have their pros and cons. The children live near some of the best parks in London and aren’t exactly lacking in opportunities to play outside.
• My brother and his wife have hobbies …. Yes really that is a problem. His wife plays tennis, my brother golfs, they both occasionally enjoy playing poker (this hasn’t threatened their finances to my knowledge). My mum believes that it is poor parenting to leave the children with a babysitter occasionally to “indulge” in hobbies.
• They don’t visit her often, and don’t let her visit. To be honest I imagine this is because she is so bloody judgemental and is constantly criticising them. She also refuses to stay in their flat as you have to climb stairs so gets a hotel, but then complains she can’t navigate London alone so one of them have to go and get her each morning, walk her back to theirs and do the same in the evening.

She is insisting I to my brother and see if I can “sort him out” as he has clearly chosen his wife badly, raising his children badly and is hurting her.
She has now said as I refused to talk to him, I must agree with him and we have both let her down and she doesn’t know where she has gone wrong!
My dad thinks I should just say I will talk to him so she will stop asking, then not act on it, I think it’s pointless to say that.
What I actually want to do is tell her perhaps they keep a distance because she is so judgmental, critical and arrogant about her view of what is right. Both my dad and husband think I shouldn’t bother and that she might even have “some points” even if it isn’t technically her place to comment on it.

AIBU to think she is being absolutely crazy and after 4 years of listening to her witter on about how disappointing my brother and his wife are, to think I should just tell her, that her attitude may be the problem, not their parenting or lifestyle (which may not be to everyone’s preference but isn’t objectively bad)?

Well done to your brother and wife for not seeing her and tolerating her.

She sounds truly awful.
Stop seeing her yourself.
It's not worth it.

Must be so uncomfortable for you OP, when she starts her nonsense. Has your DB mentioned anything directly to you?

Sounds like you're all just a little bit scared of her because no-one is calling her out on her behaviour and just ignoring it. I think, after 4 years (!!) you should tell her that you don't want to listen to her criticisms of your DB and shut any further comments down straight away. If she gets a cob on, then so be it. She should be told to find other things to focus her attention on, like new hobbies so she can inflict herself on other unsuspecting people so she can relax her attention on DB.

And don't think for one second that she doesn't slag you off to anyone who'll listen because I'm sure you've done/are doing stuff that don't/doesn't align to her way of thinking!

So what has your Mum done with her life?

Regardless I was expecting some sort of shocking behaviour from your brother and am disappointed it’s all nothing really.

You and your Dad are being unreasonable for not telling her to wind her neck in.

IME good relationships with in-laws require one of two things:

Either both sides being fairly tolerant and and kind, and never criticising each other openly. Or one side being extremely tolerant and kind to put up with the criticism and demands of the other.

Your mother needs to understand that she won't succeed in getting your brother and SIL to change their lifestyles. So either she puts up and shuts up, or she loses any chance of being close to them and her grandchildren. Does she really value making a point above seeing her son?

Sometimes a sibling (any helpful aunts or uncles?) or close friend (if you also know them) can get through to them more easily.

^ that is the best option IMO.

"You can pick your friends but you can't pick your family" as they say.

She isn't going to change, so all you can do is change your behaviour and the above is a good start...

Not a good idea to follow what dad suggests nd agree to speak to DB but then not to……..DM might then confront DB and say you’re going to speak to him etc and this might interfere with your relationship with DB and SIL…….hope that makes sense.

Personally, I’d tell DM that DB and SIL chose their lifestyle and it is nothing to do with anyone else how and where they live………and tell DM you are no longer discussing it with her.

And it sounds as though your father has been her enabler in allowing her to get like that.

I would tell her, as I did tell mine, but be prepared for a complete breakdown in your relationship with her.

I would absolutely tell her that she is being critical and unfair. That she is on a path to loosing her son, and that you won't listen to it for much longer.

The whole needing to be taken to and from the hotel is ridiculous. My mum loves to be fussed over and have people take care of her. It is exhausting and I have largely cut her out of my life.

Poker is actually a really fun card game. I haven't played in years but when I do the stakes are usually super low (5/10/20/50 cent). But it can of course be a problem if people are loosing money they cannot afford to. My motto is only gamble what you can afford to lose

My mother was like this: she criticised everything about me to my sister, and vice versa. (Obviously we compared notes!) At some point I noticed that if I ever mentioned having seen a friend, she harrumphed "I never liked him/her!" and when asked why came up with random invented reasons. Sometimes she had never even met them. So I started making people up and she had never liked them either. When I called her out on it, she said I had always been a liar.

All you can do is ignore it and have as little contact as possible. This will leave her free to have a go at you instead!

God she sounds tedious.

I'm not surprised they don't want to see her. I'm surprised you want to see her. In your shoes, I wouldn't have been able to listen to her nastiness for four minutes, let alone four years.

Your brother and his wife live a life - a very nice life, by the sound of it - that is far removed from the life she's lived, she can't understand that and she's angry and bitter that they've moved so far away from her idea of what constitutes 'normal' life.

And I bet in her eyes it's all his 'horrible' wife's fault. Taking him away from his own mother and the life he grew up with.

Don't, as some pps have suggested, say you will talk to your brother and pretend to your mother that you have. That would just be encouraging her and perpetuating her idea that she's right when she is clearly completely wrong.

By just listening to her rants, you and your father are enabling her. Someone needs to tell her to keep her nasty, bitter opinions to herself. Unfortunately, I suspect no one will and she'll just carry on like this for the rest of her life with everyone around her nodding and smiling.

I’d be asking her if she’s so openly bitchy and judgemental about my brother, what is she saying about me behind my back?

I would ask her to consider if she continues she could lose your brother permanently.

Is she jealous his wife is wealthy and paid off their mortgage - or sees her as competition for your brothers attention?

Id tell her she was being ridiculous and to pack it in! Who the heck is she to be the decider of how people love their lives? Small minded to the extreme.

I had to completely lose my rag with my mother over this kind of thing. She didn't ask me to intervene in my brother's life, but she moaned about it and made (I think false) accusations about him all the time.

If I'm honest, his lifestyle and his decisions were far from mine, and we had little in common. But filial loyalty and affection won out and I ended up giving her a mouthful. She didn't do it after that.

You really do need to do something similar.

I would tell her that you don’t remotely think your brother needs sorting out.

Someone should be sticking up for your brother, your dad clearly won’t, so I’d be protecting your relationship with him by saying something to her.

My guess would be she sees herself as the family matriarch. Her husband backs her, she wants her daughter to do as she says.

Because her son isn’t dependent on her in anyway she struggles being happy in that relationship because she has no authority and way to be in charge. The staying in a hotel is a way of her trying to exert herself.

I would think she resents the wife and wife’s family for enabling him to be independent of your parents and her loss of control

Yes! You should talk, but not to him, but her. Tell her if she does not stop this shite, she will lose you and your brother too. Be stern. Why did you not nip these conversations in the bud at the start? Why? You are too nice, that is why. I would have understood if his wife was an alkie, a druggie, but he clearly married up, her parents helped them live mortgage-free in London!!!! close to parks!!!! I think she is a nasty old bat, I am sorry.

I saw a friend's marriage destroyed like that, purely because of her mother - she felt poorly, they moved her in, she did not appreciate all that was done for her and started eating away at their marriage by constantly criticising son-in-law and giving advice. Unlike my other friend, whose family thrived with the arrival of a mil (but mil was Greek and left son-in-law alone) to live with them, this family was destroyed, all because of their kindness and even meekness vis-a-vis mil. Don't let the old bat ruin things. Enlist your dad's help to shut her up.

I'd tell her that you're not getting involved and you don't agree with her on this, and if she thinks that you have all let her down then that's on her, and you'd like her to drop the subject before she drives everyone away.

Refuse to get involved or to talk about it. Tell her that it's your brother and you support him

I would see her as little as possible, she sounds thoroughly unpleasant.

She probably does! (If my mother is anything to go by, she definitely does!)

Try another angle? My parents used to complain about my brothers a lot, my brothers used to complain about my parents. Guess who was stuck in the middle? After another moan, I told my parents that it was getting me down, hearing all of it, constantly negative. And also some of their moaning was unfair on my brothers and their expectations out of whack. My dad wasn't known to be reasonable but on this one he was. Both my parents stopped moaning.

It's not your place to say anything whatsoever and if you say anything to your brother you run the risk of ruining your relationship when in reality he has done nothing wrong and you sound fond of him. But you can ask your mum to stop using you as a sounding board.

I’d say you don’t want to hear any more criticism of them. You won’t be speaking to your brother about his lifestyle. I’d say if she carries on she’s going to alienate you all. If she starts I’d just have a phrase and stop her, eg Mum I don’t want to hear it. I’d also let your brother and wife know you’ve spoken to her. They sound very patient with her.

Your DM sounds very controlling and may well be jealous of your brother and his wife and her family. Good luck OP

What a dreadful woman! I’m surprised they see her at all! I would say very clearly, “I do not want to hear you criticise my brother or his wife any more. You are pushing them away with your awful judgement.” And then every time she starts, interrupt and say “I told you I don’t want to hear it and if you don’t stop I will leave/ask you to leave”.

Show her the zombie apocalypse thread, and divert her attention into preparing for that possibility (stairs an advantage, wielding a tennis racquet as a weapon also an advantage, not panicking when the stakes high - distinct advantage) 🧟 🧟 🧟

I would tell her if she carries on your brother will eventually go no contact and that is all on her. Miserable cow.

Id actually just say every single time she comments

You want to be judgemental, if he didn't live like he does what would you have to complain about - leave me out of it though Im not refereeing.

If she come back with
"You must agree with him"

no I disagree with you being judgemental, but you are and we still love you