Does the ground floor flat have the sole right to the front garden or is it shared?

[newyorknewyorkforevernewyork]

In a victorian house converted into flats, which are all rented from one landlord?

The rear garden belongs to the GF I know that, but what about the front garden?

Photo for example included, not my home

Yabu - belongs to the gf flat only
Yanbu - belongs to all the flats as they all have to pass by it to get home

Nc as outing

Sometimes you have to push back and really make some noise so the complainer can hear the difference between normal noise of family entering and exiting the building and being intentionally rambunctious. go about your day put some earbuds in and when he wants to drone on about his health point to them and say…on a call John. If he wants to complain about the noise…don’t want to hear it John. He sees you alone with small child and thinks he can make you miserable by nit picking your behavior. He won’t be made happy. I’m gonna sort it…what exactly does this threat mean? He’s going to physically harm you? Call the police? Complain to the LL! Of course he won’t they know he’s a grump. Just come and go be reasonable but not overly conscientious and draw a line here because if you tiptoe past his door next thing he will be complaining about the noise in your flat. And no more gifts op . He takes your kindness for granted. He’s a neighbor not a friend.

There is no way of knowing without looking at what was written on the deeds when the conversation took place.
When I owned a converted flat the back garden was divided into sections, each flat owned a section. The front garden was owned by the flat below but we had right of way to walk along the left hand strip to access the front door and to walk past the front window to access the side gate. We couldn't store anything in the front garden (without permission of the flat below).
But your flat may have a different set up on your deeds.

There’s two separate issues here.

firstly the complaints about the noise - you and your child obviously have a right to enter and exit past his flat and you don’t need to tiptoe and be absolutely silent when doing so. Obviously a screaming shouting child (even if it’s happy shouting rather than angry or scared) outside your front door is not great and you do need to tell your child to enter and
exit quietly - normal talking ok of course!

So unless you’re minimising “childlike noise” to include eg loud shouting and shrieking and banging on neighbours door or the hallway /running up and down stairs as a “game” right outside neighbour’s front door I think neighbour is being unreasonable. You and you child can’t live being scared of harassment from normal noise.

The storage is a separate thing - obviously hard if tensions high with neighbours but as you have already done you’ll need to check with HA re use of the front garden/storage. Ultimately if you are not allowed to store stuff there then you’ll need to find another place to store your things in your own flat. If you are allowed to store stuff I suggest buying your own space to avoid having to rely on neighbours space if relations deteriorate between you both.

If neighbour is genuinely being unreasonable about complaints to you for normal noise when entering and leaving I’d be tempted to report this to the HA so he backs off.

The hallway is about a metre wide and 2m long. She will run down the stairs (aged 7) and may jump or talk to herself whilst waiting for me

Theres been one occasion where she has screeched from excitement

I mean, i consider that normal noise from children? If she was out there all day jumping and shouting, or playing football, i'd say fair enough

But its when we're coming and going?! For 3 mins at most?! I am sorry but I think i'm right to defend her and not put up with him anymore

I mean, kids make noise. I grew up on an estate and had kids playing outside the front door - is it such a big deal if kids do that (not that mine does!)

Re the storage issue, ive emailed the HA twice and I am waiting on a response

You need to check the deeds. You will likely have right of access up the path and through the door but the bit in front of their window may well fully belong to them. We have our own back garden that we access through our living room door but the neighbours have right of access if they need garden stuff brought through, they got mad at us when we put a lock on our side of the gate and my husband swiftly reminded them they had ‘right of access’ not ‘free access’! People can be twats when it comes to communal areas!!

When I owned a sentries more modern flat and my sister owned an upstairs one similar to mine. The downstairs owned the back main fenced in garden with access from their back door. The front garden responsibility of up keep went to the upstairs owner which in my sister’s case was her. They didn’t share a door. Upstairs door was straight ahead off the main path and downstairs door was round to the right. No one had kids so no issues around kids playing out. My sister did have a rotating washing line in the front garden, not in front of downstairs window though, more to the side. But she was definitely owner. She would get complaints is she didn’t maintain the garden as well. In my flat I owned the back garden and did have to access my door via the front garden owned by upstairs neighbour. He wasn’t great at maintaining his grass.

Does anyone pass your flat? I think it’s easy to underestimate noise in these situations. Hard surfaces bounce the sound around, and a tot talking to herself and jumping down the steps may make a lot more noise than you realise. I only mention it because I thought mine was ok, then I heard them from a different flat and was shocked at the noise! It was amplified by the hard surfaces somehow.

in case I have to move the kids stuff from there

I used to live in a flat in a converted house exactly like what you're describing.

We all shared the front 'garden' area - mainly because we shared the front door and therefore had to pass through the front garden to get in and out. But we were not allowed to leave things there. We weren't allowed to keep things like bikes, kids' play equipment or anything like that in any communal spaces, indoors or outdoors.

So it's perfectly possible you'll have to shift your kids' stuff regardless.

Personally I don’t think it’s ok for a 7 year old to screech with excitement (what was so exciting?) in communal areas, let alone right outside someone else’s door.

Then he said 'just tell your dc to stop banging on my door'

There's a big difference between hearing voices or whatever as someone passes your door, and having a child banging on it.

Check the deeds. In my old flat, the downstairs got the garden and the upstairs got the loft.

She just isnt banging on his door 😭

Hes the one storing massive bikes there when he has a garden tbh so I am not at all fazed by what happens to him

Why not - kids make noise, its what they do

If she was constantly screaming outside his door, that would be one thing

The guys a twat

Yeah, you’re just proving his point, sadly.

No they dont - but i hear noises from the window of them coming and going

We live on a main road in London 🙄🙄 noise is par for the course

How so?

It'll attract tramps.. what a clown.

Even if its owned by everyone and if its as small as the example shown - Are you asking because you plan to sit outside / have a bbq / have your kids play outside etc in front of the bottom flat's window ?

If you are , then I'm afraid yabu / inconsiderate etc .

No i am not

Hes an idiot and ive had enough

I need to be able to relax in my own home, not worry about coming and going

Are you sure? She may do it whilst waiting for you and you don’t realise?

No i can hear her

She isnt down there for long, and i am always following, just often carrying bin bags or kids stuff

Just want to show solidarity and empathy with you OP.

Being on the ground floor of a flat doesnt give you the right to police people on the upper floors, but unfortunately these dynamics are quite common.

We actually had the exact same issue and the anxiety honestly destroyed me. They werent being reasonable at all and had never been reasonable in the first place. Lots of people will assume you are minimising and being unreasonable but having been through this first time, when you get an older person by themselves downstairs and a family upstairs, it so often spirals like this.

That depends on the lease/deeds/ tenancy agreement. Theres no hard and fast rule.