To think that not always, but quite often, it is the parents...

[ImImmortalNowBabyDoll]

I was a teacher for a few years and in the years I taught I saw behaviour getting MUCH worse and parents getting less and less inclined to support teachers.

I saw a facebook post today saying that it's unreasonable to blame parents for children's behaviour in school and it then went on to talk about how hard it is for ND kids to stay regulated at school and it's the fault of "the system" that they can't cope.

There's a family I know with 2 boys who are both constantly in trouble in school. The classroom frequently has to be evacuated because of the younger one's violent outbursts. He's about 8.

I saw him today in the library, running around, ignoring the librarian, and swearing profusely the whole time. They're both always out unsupervised, roaming the streets, and when I see him with his Mum, she speaks to him with the same language he uses for everyone else. Social services had to get involved because she kept smacking them, so now she swears and shouts at them and they hit her, and she asks what she's supposed to do now she's not allowed to hit them back.

I don't know if they are ND, but the problem is that they're barely being parented and when they are, they example being set is dreadful.

I have three children, I had two DDs first and both were so easy. Could take them to a restaurant and they would quietly colour in. No issues at school. I also worked with children for 15 years and even nd kids i rarely had issues with behaviour (kids are often better behaved for teachers/child care staff)
Them I had my son who is autistic, none of it worked, not my parenting skills or my childcare skills. I had to learn how to parent my son specifically to support him. I had to learn to not sweat the small stuff, I let a lot of things my girls wouldn’t have got away with go because otherwise everything would always be negative criticisms. I learnt to manage his environment, bend things/ make changes to work things for him. Consistency, lots of preparation for new things. It’s an all consuming process that rarely eases and for that I have a child that manages day to day but still struggles with things I can’t control and sometimes I get it wrong. Despite the fact I’m putting 200% more effort than I ever needed to with my DDs I’m getting 80% less back for it. And every one (family / friends/ strangers) has an opinion.- I pander to him, I just need to ‘tell him’. He would t get away with that if he were mine.

it’s exhausting as is all the judgement. If he was my first o would genuinely think I was the shittiest parent ever but I know I’m I good parent I have two children who are thriving.
To be honest I thing a lot of the time it’s not the parents it’s the expectations of everyone else.

20 years ago schools were completely different. We had two breaks a day, we weren't hothoused for SATs in yr 6, we had a more varied curriculum, I did baking and DT in primary school, lots don't get those chances now. We did more art and music and less sitting on a chair in a class in front of a desk all day. Not to mention some of the kids who don't cope today quite simply just wouldnt have been there because there wasn't the same focus on attendance back then. Schools were also better funded, had more TAs, teachers had more control over how to teach.

There's a million and one reasons why behaviour in schools have changed and it's not just how parents parent. 20 years ago we still had useless parents.

My lad has asd and adhd we did all the courses had a stable family background my husband and I are still together and raise him together.
From being young he had boundaries was taught manners and made to follow rules etc.
It’s still been really really rough going we’ve had to leave restaurants restrict holidays to camping, avoid so many things and even with a million adjustments he could still explode 😭 He’s 17 now and has vastly improved which I’m glad about being punched by him at 6ft hurt he’s 6ft5 now 🤣 it was hard but we always tried our best that said I’m sure folk would slag us off behind our backs sometimes 🥴

Well yes. That was my point, I was agreeing with you.

Can relate.

Dnephew is apparently autistic and it's an excuse for everything. Can't stop punching people.... Cos he's autistic. Glued to a screen... Cos he's autistic. Can't do any type of school work that requires an ounce of effort... Autistic.

It's literally just an excuse for bad parenting.

These are parents whose child attacked another child several times at a scout group, got kicked out (rightly so) but the parent argued the toss and got him back into Scouts.

What does this demonstrate to the child?
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What are you talking about? Schools still have two breaks a day and do DT. SATS were a thing when I was at school 30 years ago.

Perfect parents of MN assemble.

I don’t think that’s true. We are in Scotland where it’s meant to be play based learning. My kids don’t even have desks and yet the behaviour is increasingly getting worse.
I actually think many of the kids would benefit from a lot more structure and routine!

This thread is all about ableism. One of many.

Fuck off with it, quite frankly.

@NotTheOrdinary I don't see how it's ablist to discuss how to better support ND children.

I've been a teacher for a very long time and have my own ND children, and honestly there are many more children struggling these days, partly because parenting styles have changed dramatically. As have schools. Lots of ND children benefit from boundaries, routines etc and they aren't getting them. At home or at school. Too many people resort to iPads as they are a quick, easy way to help a child regulate. And this is understandable, but in the long run it causes problems.

At the school where I work, the senior leaders have a very basic knowledge of therapeutic teaching and have run with it! They have interpreted it as no child should be punished for anything ever. Literally. No '5 minutes off your break', no removal of privileges, nothing but talking it through. Behaviour is dire and this makes for a very chaotic environment, which means that children are struggling, particularly those with ND. Who, ironically are the people this system is hoping to help. They're well meaning but way off the mark.

Obviously I've digressed a lot. What I'm trying to say is the education system has lost its way a bit with neuro diversity.

I think both parents and teaching staff need a better understanding of ND. And of course there's no one size fits all.

Where was the dad up until that point?

They were 50:50 by C/O, but it wasn't enough for him to outweigh the total chaos the other 50% of the time. He's going back through court yet again to try and get it on paper that he won't be handed back to the mother 50% of the time if she shows up again, currently no-one knows where she is except the police who say she doesn't want contact with anyone.

We had two breaks and lunch. And didn't do SATs until yr 9. We certainly weren't hothoused an entire year for them either,

Year 6 SATs started in 1994.

In my experience the 'talking it through' approach with the children who have additional needs, in our school, has led to an atmosphere where terrible behaviour is ignored and the children are persuaded/bribed into participating.

These children are pushing to find a limit but rarely do because 'gentle'. The other children are meanwhile being disciplined in a totally different way and being held to a higher standard.

So the children with additional needs have few limits and are aware that very little is expected of them. To know that your teachers don't think you are capable of achieving what your peers can (and of course some adjustments might be needed) must be so damaging to the self esteem of these children.

And the children who either don't have additional needs, or who are just about coping, are aware of and hugely resent the double standard. As well as having to suffer the disruption these children bring to their education.

Exceptions won't be made to this extent in their adult lives, so the children (who often need limits) being in charge of what they do is not going to benefit them in adult life, or even high school.

None of my children are ND so I count myself lucky that I haven’t had to experience the stress of having children who find school and its expected behaviours challenging.

I have a good friend who has two children, one of whom is very well behaved (eldest) and his brother is the ‘naughty’ one. Same environment, same parenting, just different children. He (the youngest) is on the pathway for an ADHD assessment.

Same with a lot of things - I think its easy to judge if you haven’t experienced these things yourself.

Also, I think there is a lot of classism involved. I think teachers (probably subconsciously) blame parents for badly behaved children if they are working class. Those parents are more likely to be labelled lazy or referred to as ‘scum’ (as per PP).

I’ve found that a middle class accent and a flowery scarf works wonders for how some teachers perceive you as a parent.

I think there is a lot of truth to schools and "the system" not being appropriate for some of the ND kids who are sent into mainstream education nowadays. But also that parenting and a changing society mean that a lot of kids are not given the boundaries, attention and structure they need to behave well at school, be pleasant to be around, or to thrive.

Well, I am AuDHD, I strongly suspect my husband is AuDHD, my step daughter is AuDHD and my daughter is in the pathway for ADHD diagnosis. My brother is autistic and I think my Mum is very likely AuDHD. My best friends' kids are both on the autism assessment pathway and my nephew is autistic. So I'm not sure I'd say I'm inexperienced.

I had one of each... the lovely, sweet & quiet goody two shoes and the disruptive rebel with a foul mouth. If you met them with me in a public place you would think both were lovely and sweet children. Sometimes it simply isn't down to parenting, but personality, friendship groups and the environment they are placed in.

Some children just are not cut out for the routines of school. That's not anyone's fault. That said, in my experience, 99.9% of the time, when I've met the parents of kids in my class...I see exactly why the kids are the way they are, poor things.

The parent I know who complains the loudest about schools and teachers just utterly failed in every way to prepare their child for an environment in which there are rules and expectations. Laughed and encouraged them in every anti social behaviour they exhibited (swearing like a sailor and spreading their bare bum cheeks on a regular basis). Filmed and put them on social media with adults cackling and cheering them on. What did they think would happen when that child entered a classroom situation? Not to mention homelife was chaotic and mum’s love life was prioritised over the child’s stability. I could have empathy if the mum came from a difficult background but she’s intelligent and university educated herself. I think dad tries his best but he only has her 50% of the time.

So now the child refuses to attend school and it’s all the fault of ‘the system’ apparently.

DS is a nightmare at the moment for doing stuff he's not supposed to, I'm always telling him not to do stuff, taking things off him and sometimes physically moving him away. It's exhausting and I feel like I'm going on at him constantly. I suppose that's parenting though. He's a toddler and it's normal. He doesn't have many tantrums yet...

Yup. I say that as a parent to an SEN child, but the quality of parenting is piss poor these days. Respect isn’t being taught, and too many don’t seem to want to in-still any kind of courtesy to other people, stupid things like not using headphones, I swear people are so much more entitled and rude now.

I also think in many cases it's the quality of teachers too.
Sad but true

Yeah, the clue’s right there - nueurodiversity.

Everyone’s different.