To think telling a child to "cover up" because of male teachers is ewwww?

[FreeeeeeeeFreeFalling]

DD and her mates were wearing fairly standard vest tops at school for an own clothes day. All dressed exactly the same. DD singled out and told to cover up (I suspect because she is slightly larger chested than the others), which she found humiliating. She was told "there are male teachers around" as the reason!
They are 16.
I kind of think if male teachers can't keep their eyes to themselves, they shouldn't be teachers, right?!

AIBU to think this is a bit off?

Where the hell are you seeing vests that show the areola?

Ain't it just.

No, she wasn't in a bikini - but this thread has widened to cover various different scenarios of children/teens being dressed in a way that many people believe is inappropriate for school.

But you only focus on faces, so it wouldn't even matter if a colleague came in naked anyway, presumably?

I've only got through 3 pages but , (apologies for the stupid question) ; What is a vest top?" I'm not from the UK . I'm thinking a camisole made of satin material with thin straps or a jumper with no sleeves, or a waistcoat. I'm gathering all of these are wrong.

Camisole with thin straps.

But you only focus on faces, so it wouldn't even matter if a colleague came in naked anyway, presumably?😂

Might that not be partly due to boys being less likely to wear skin-exposing clothing though? If they were, they would probably be criticised too.

The male teacher concerns is right off, but as it's an own clothes day, then the school has to carry it. As a veteran of many mufti days, them's the lumps, and I don't see the problem with strappy tops on such an occasion.

If the school has problems, then don't have an own clothes day.

Dress codes for daily wear, both school and staff need to be very carefully expressed so that no wording ever suggests modesty, sexuality or sex differences. An example would be the neckline of a top must be seen to apply to men and women equally.
Naturally the rules for uniforms and staff dress differ, but the expression of the rules must be the same.
Having sat on the staff group for teacher's dress code it's exhausting, but necessary.

I think it's a bit disingenuous for pps to assume the intent usually isn't to do with sex.

Generally speaking, men are more visually oriented sexually. Of course there are many exceptions, but this is ONE reason among others why women are more likely to wear revealing clothing than men (and to have it marketed to them).

Comparing gay men is also instructive : they're trying to attract men, so are more likely to wear tight or revealing clothing than straight men are.

🙄

I think the comment about male teachers is inappropriate, but I think a spaghetti strap top is probably inappropriate also.

It's not a question of "gawping" though is it. A man only has to look in the general direction of a woman - according to many on MN - and they are a pervert. Teenage girls have vivid imaginations and some would raise a complaint when there is nothing to complain about.

Are you really so naive as you appear?

Yes, I'd agree with that. And actually I think certain spaghetti strap tops could be ok, but they are getting cut more and more ...um... sparingly these days.

The thing that bothers me with these young girls is exactly what a pp said: fashion is strongly driven by peer pressure at that age, and unless the adults actually step in and suggest some limits, young girls will be wearing things that I thoroughly suspect in years to come - or, deep down, even at the time - they regret. I actually think sometimes it ls less about impressing boys as impressing each other tbh. So someone has to go further ...

Why would anyone want girls to be in sexualised clothing in a school setting? It's not really different than someone coming to work in inappropriate clothes.
And yes, of course it's awkward for the men. It's really nothing to do with "keeping their eyes to themselves".

I used to work in a prison education department with a ridiculous nightmare of a woman who wore low cut tops, clinging wrap dresses with deep cleavage and lace tops. She had a figure like Betty Boop. Eventually she was sent home to get changed.

When she left it emerged that she'd had flings with the male senior prison staff so she got away with it for ages.

When anyone complained they were told they were jealous and she couldn't help looking like she did.

Surely the issue is that only one person was told to ‘cover up’. Shaming a teenage girl because of the size of her breasts really isn’t on. My DD went to an all girls school and for non uniform days they have guidelines - nothing strapless or sleeveless (saves them arguing about whether straps are too narrow), no midriff tops and shorts have to be mid thigh level. That’s the same rules for everyone regardless if you are AA or DD cup, It’s also standard in Australia that kids have to have their shoulders covered in educational settings from toddler age for sun safety.

Somebody always trots out a comment like this when if comes to discussions about appropriate/ non appropriate clothing.

It's double standards when women and young girls complain about men looking at them when the clothes they wear are often designed to show off as much as their bodies as possible.

It's a great pity so many young women and girls have absolutely no sense of what is appropriate and what is frankly just embarrassing.

Tank top.

Partly. But the music tutors are the ones who say "wear black; smart clothes."
The woman who asks girls to go and get different performance clothes from the ones they have brought into school for the evening is not connected to the concert, nor (as far as I know) the department. The clothes I have seen were long black evening dresses, I grant that there could be some that would be too risque for standing on stage.

The comments on this, and the type of black trousers, and the exact acceptable black swimming costumes (that's this year, so far) come overwhelmingly from female teachers - who wear strappy dresses in temperatures above 25 degrees. The boys don't seem to make comments. The swimming in particular is causing major self-conscious reactions as it is hard to find a costume suited to your bust or your bum (some of the girls have very lean bums and the leg seams gape at the back - how is that better? Or is that their fault too?)

I judge the filler and the coloured contact lenses used by some of the staff as well, but privately and without saying anything, if we are talking about what we notice but what is polite to see as something that is a difference in beauty standards. Oh, and whose gaze would that be for? I can guess but I can't definitely know.

But the problem is that there are clearly sex differences in what clothing the two sexes wear.

It's a pity when schools switch to only allow 'neutral' uniforms, because all this means in reality is that the boys see no difference at all whilst the girls lose the option to wear standard female clothes - ergo male becomes the default.

Even those that don't demand trousers for all usually insist on ties for all, which are archaic and pointless enough for boys, but even more ridiculous for girls - and don't even hang properly on many cemale bodies.

However, if there are potential issues with clothing that only the girls will ever be choosing to wear, I don't think it's unreasonable to acknowledge that all the people who are wearing that clothing choice inappropriately will be girls.

Surely the issue is that only one person was told to ‘cover up’.

Yes, agreed. Although I think it perfectly reasonable for a school to have modesty rules regarding attire, I think singling out is wrong.

The problem, I guess, is that the same top could look very different depending on which size it was purchased in for instance. One might not cover your bra at the front, or your belly button, whereas the same top, differently fitted on a different person, might have a lot of coverage. But care is needed to not make someone feel they are being singled out for their shape.

I think this is the problem with the idea that you stated that girls clothing choices shouldn't be restricted by boys seeing them as highly sexualised.

The fact is, fashion for women and girls is often deliberately highly sexualised. The boys would have to be from another planet not to perceive it that way. The girls themselves may or may not realize it, but the designers and trend setters surely do.

And as soon as the old style becomes more old hat, they push the envelope again, so you end up with trends like butt cheeks hanging out.

It's not the boy's fault that society does this, and they shouldn't have to spend their day in an environment that is happy to look at girls, often minor girls, as sexual objects. Even if the girls seem ok with it.

Utterly unbelievable. If a young Teacher turned up to school wearing this top most teenage boys would naturally enjoy it but I doubt the Head Teacher would. Schools need to start setting more boundaries for non uniform days.

Vest tops have been seen in a few workplaces @The6thQueen

They are occasionally seen on building sites, and also at Nakatomi Plaza (but without hi-viz) - venn diagram crossover - they are the same thing, in effect 🤔
Professional weight-lifters need them, of course, but probably in the form of an all-in-one.
Worn for welding while dancing and singing - potentially very ouchy, Health and Safety nightmare.
Vest tops are the heritage uniform of roustabouts, from the elephant documentary "Dumbo" to the skilled operators of bumper cars today.
Perfect top for dancing with youngsters who have names like "Baby".
Essential for on-call (and unexpected) drive- tarmacking.
Should you find yourself on a plane full of violent prisoners that eventually makes an emergency landing on the Las Vegas strip, you'll thank your stars you wore a vest top 😉

In other words, niche... There aren't many jobs in the real world where a vest top is usual.

Wearing a vest top to school is totally inappropriate @FreeeeeeeeFreeFalling because (although you won't address it) it's sexual/flirty.

Ok

So what do you suggest someone wears if the weather is really hot? I assume when you go abroad on holiday you also wouldn't let your child god forbid wear a vest top cos that's inappropriate yes? 🤔🤦🏻‍♀️

I had this shit as well growing up. I was unfortunate to have 36DDs aged 11 and was sexualised for it
Maybe the issue is the person who's sexualising kids? Just a thought....

Unless of course you subscribe to the "she was wearing a shirt skirt and was asking for it" trope...