To not make my 4yo wear clothes at home?

[Schnapps00]

4.5yo has always been a bit 'sensory', but for some reason it's really ramped up in the last couple of months and it's got to the point where we can't get her dressed in the morning if it's the weekend/for an outing. Currently travels naked in the car to preschool, wrap her in a towel and her teachers get her dressed inside the door (just T-shirt/shorts) 🙈 She seems to manage fine with them on all day, then will generally keep them on in the evening after nursery (we recently had the same T-shirt on 3 days straight 😬)

It's prolonged screaming/meltdown if we try at home, I've tried many times to just whip on a pair of shorts and pick her up/walk off, but it's thrashing/screaming/kicking/biting/scratching and pulling them down as soon as she's able to, lots of lots of dysregulation, up to 1.5hr bouts for other reasons (if she gets the clothes off she's generally ok again quickly) - general limits or things not going her way will also set her off.

Extends to other areas too, just started refusing nighttime pullup as well (luckily she seems to be mostly night training herself in the process there..!)

I'm not sure if we're setting her up for failure by 'letting' her go naked at home? It's got to the point where she sometimes wants to go out, but just can't deal with any clothes on, which is the part that concerns me/makes me sad.
Possibly related to impending school start, her big sis already goes to it, so she's very aware of change soon.. Extra needs or just exerting control where she can?

It's getting exhausting and I'm wondering where all this ends up..Had an initial chat with HV but no magic wands waved.

Thanks so much for any thoughts!!

So sorry, it's so tough! And doubly so if they're older and can't be physically overpowered anymore 🙈 Is the therapy private/NHS? Does it come down to transitions with her, does she need help getting dressed? Yes there's a few favourites which we're sticking to at the moment, we've got to the point where we know she can tolerate them at nursery so it's going to be working on the transition to getting dressed at home again, it's limiting what she & everyone can do now, so not good. I hope your SD can progress more as she gets older 🤞🏻

Thank you so much for this, this is extremely validating..!! I think she could give him a run for his money in the stubbornness stakes, maybe we should have a competition 😂 This resonates about coming at things sideways, not sure if you've looked at the Good inside content about 'deeply feeling kids' (I haven't in detail), but I know it talks about this too - avoiding making things a demand where possible, taking the Trojan horse approach.. food for thought. At least we don't have to worry about them being a pushover right?!

In short, no we hadn't thought about any of it as this has all escalated pretty recently in the last couple of months..this is all pretty sobering to read though, had no idea about the reforms & it's all a (potential) brave new world to navigate 🙈 Will be engaging with the school asap though for sure. Private may well be the way to go, it's so rubbish that some can access that and some can't :(

I always insist on underwear at home at a bare minimum, the idea of kids butt's on everything makes me 🤢. We have finally found good coverage underwear from asda and seamless socks really help.

DD can be fussy but is getting better. Hang in there op, do you suspect ND?

That is 100% progress! I would not try to force her unless you think she is doing it deliberately, but it doesn't sound like she is and it doesn't sound like you think she is.

Autistic here (as if the name was not a clue!) and I bloody hate getting dressed. No idea why - it's just urg. Having clothes on is fine, but getting dressed - urg. Over the years I have found clothes I like and I wear the same ones a lot. I would just keep things calm and light-hearted, and sympathise with her that putting clothes on does indeed suck but having them on is not so bad and it enables her to do things. Can she be distracted while dressing maybe? TV on, loud music, whatever she likes.

It makes me 🤢 too!! We've got a blanket she's been sitting on, but it's amazing how quickly standards drop..🙈 Encouraging to hear you've seen progress though 🤞🏻 Yes potentially ND, hadn't really considered before but this thread is proving a wake up call..🥲

You might be able to get an autism assessment through right to choose, so look at that before spending your money. There are clearly indications that she might be, but it would also rule it out if she isn't. Pay for an OT to work on reasons and desensitising.

Have you tried dressing her while asleep? It's warm now, so an easy on t shirt and shorts or leggings. The she can take them off when home from whatever activity you do in the day and have fresh ones put on overnight.

I feel your pain, one of mine can only tolerate pyjamas. The school did let him wear them instead of uniform, but then other kids kept asking why he wasn't in uniform, so it wasn't the fix we hoped for.

Thank you. Yes I need to try get clearer in my mind about what's going on, as we've thought different things on different days. The recent trip we attempted where she was really sad she couldn't make it work I think cemented it that's it not deliberate though, will be ignoring the punishment comments from here on in..

Action plan seems to be (in case a TLDR summary is helpful for anyone else!):

• More structure around support with transition, give her the chance to get started on her terms, then help with the transition if that doesn't work; social story, getting dressed doll, warm clothes and possibly screen distraction
• Seam-free clothes & ensuring no physical irritation wherever possible
• SEND support chat with school asap
• Private paediatric OT assessment/session to see what they can offer, possible diagnosis pathway from there

Thank you so much everyone who's commented, this has been super helpful in the space of 24hrs and I feel much better already - Mumsnet and mums for the win 💐

Does she like audio books? My daughter found them enormously helpful for a while. If you got one of the portable players you could put a book on first thing and she could focus on that through breakfast / teeth / dressed / drive to nursery and it keeps the transitions flowing.

Personally I'd stop the naked car rides immediately though as that is not something you want to bed in too long or it will be hard to change it. It's really not great for a lot of reason (appreciate that sometimes you just end up doing something and eventually something totally random feels normal, but if you step back from this a bit I think you'll agree it's not a great place to land)

Absolutely, had already been thinking this, as it just transfers the battle to a public place 🙈 We're not supposed to use the nursery carpark (but desperate times!), so had been thinking of trying to reinforce that after half term, we can't use it anymore so have to get dressed at home etc..trouble is there's never the luxury of time in the mornings!!
And yes she loves her Tonie box at bedtime so that could be worth a go 🤞🏻

We had this with our ASD child. I’m sorry to be blunt but there is no chance this is an NT child. You need to push for an assessment now and hard. What helped was putting the tv on to his favourite show and then I dressed him. We did it every single morning even on the weekends. You just couldn’t lose the routine. He looked mad in a uniform on the weekends and I’m fairly sure people thought I was being too tight to buy him regular clothes!

As soon as they’re on you need to get out the door. Make it fun. Get the car or buggy or whatever completely ready to go. The tv goes off and you say ‘race you to the car!’ And Go! When they get to the car/buggy hand them a snack to eat. Whatever is their favourite. The idea is to distract from the transition.

My DS was like this up until he started school. I think the uniform requirement really helped, he recognised that school = uniform and he wanted to look like the other kids I guess. At nursery he was constantly removing his trousers to the extent the nursery manager hauled me in on more than one occasion because they couldn’t have him running around half naked. I wasn’t really sure what to do about it, the boy just liked his freedom! We let him roam around naked at home back then, now he wears onesies at home most of the time.

So yeah I hope your DD also outgrows it.

My youngest basically has a uniform that he wears to his non-uniform school - same trousers, t-shirt, jumper (refuses pants - tried all the standard stuff to get him to wear them). He lives in them, and changes them reluctantly - so once you find something she'll tolerate, quietly, without fanfare, buy enough for the week so you can embed the success.

I absolutely recommend OTs - my eldest is dyspraxic (not the stubborn one, although he has his moments) and an OT is what got him to the level where he could actually dress himself and even do up zips and buttons (we've given up on shoelaces) and brought his handwriting to a standard where at least he (and dedicated teachers) could read it. They do wonders!

One thing though - make sure you shop around a bit - we've had a couple of excellent experiences, but also some that were definitely just dialling it in. If you get the impression that the OT isn't actually gelling with you and your daughter, do try another! I often find the report gives it away. One literally just cut and paste bits from my questionnaire, and in the practical let him retry things when he didn't get them first time, then counted it as a success (which is entirely against what they were testing for). Other ones listened and engaged and noticed when he was talking to them to distract them from the things he was finding hard.

Sounds like my son who’s now 12 and autistic . He still loves to be naked at home although in the last year he will now still strip naked but wrap a blanket around him to protect his modesty. But he still gets home from high school and strips. He struggled and struggles very much with clothes. I tried for soo long to fight him to wear ‘normal clothes’ and one day woke up to the fact of how would I feel or learn if all I could feel was a scratchy label or feeling itchy everywhere. And started to work with him more not against
He wore the primary PE kit instead of a uniform. He has found a specific t shirt he likes and he has multiple of those and shorts that he likes and has multiple of but in different colours (lots of trial, error, him saying he liked it when he tried it in a shop but not liking it once we’d got home and taken off the labels etc etc) we also went through so many and so much money finding underpants he could wear but I buy multiples in different sizes (and he will only wear 1 colour out of the 3 in the packs grrr). But he has matured lots and with some adjustments is managing high school uniform. I’m so proud of him and who cares if he strips when he’s home to be out of his uncomfy clothes.

But I very much sympathise and know it’s not as easy as punishing or parenting. I feel for you. And I know how much they want to be able to do it but just can’t.

I meant to add also we went through a phase when he was older maybe around 7 of having a rule - you can’t sit on the sofa with no underpants on. This worked but as he got older he transitioned to wrapping himeself in his comfy blanket - but now will run upstairs and hide from unexpected visitors and dress for expected ones 🤣. He used to just happily run around naked whatever 😬.

if you’ve not looked at it already I’d look up sensory processing disorder it can be separate but often co-exists with autism. We found with my boy also he preferred clothes a size or 2 bigger, some children prefer them small and tights. But by god help me if there’s seams and labels 🤣🤣

They really ought to make some clothes with outer-facing seams, or seamless, for those with sensory issues.

Does your 4 year old not have friends round or does she not go to friends’ houses? What happens then? What happens when your older child has friends round?
I remember when my daughter was about 4 and we visited friends whose daughter went upstairs and stripped naked and encouraged my daughter to follow suit. I wasn’t happy about it and made mine get dressed again. Shortly afterwards the same child visited our house, squashed fruit into my furniture and shoved a whole toilet roll down the toilet. I have no idea if she was ND or not, but mutual visits stopped then and I was only happy to meet in the park or cafe.

They do - eczema specialist clothing which some have linked to up thread.

One of mine was very difficult about clothes from ages 2-4. Dressing involved huge tantrums. Lots of sensory issues. We didn't do nursery so he could just wear what he wanted and that often involved lots of nudity. He was very stubborn and to those who suggest you just out-stubborn them - that worked with some of my children, but not others. The end goal is happy, healthy children who can function in society, and we take different paths to get different children there. My son liked a particular cartoon character and would wear light shorts and T-shirts with this character on, so that was what he lived in for several years. Longer term, he has shown a lot of ASD characteristics, as have some of my other DC. He has heightened sensory awareness, tastes and notices things that most don't. He has always been particular about his clothes and as an adult, he dresses beautifully, often in classic vintage clothes. He greatly enjoys fine food and is nearing the end of a highly respected professional qualification. I can't say more without being outing but just wanted to reassure you that a bloody difficult young child can turn out well (though still bloody difficult at times!). Feel free to dm me if you want the details of what we did educationally.

I just wanted to say op... some pp have said your dc is definitely ND and it's not just a phase but I think there's an element of bias there.

I've posted before under a name change years ago as my dd went through a phase of about three years between the age of 1 and 4 where she couldn't bear water on her face or head. Like, really properly screaming and trembling in real pain/panic if water touched her head, not just a little whinge. I can't even exaggerate her response, it was honestly like we were burning her. Washing her hair was so incredibly distressing that we only did it once or twice a month. People told me that this was a sign of autism-related sensory sensitivity (combined with other behaviours).

Now she's 5, she washes her hair no problem. It was like a switch flipped. She's just fine with it now. Enjoys the bath.

She still has her idiosyncrasies, eg she is quite introverted, but she's doing fine at school both academically and socially and if she does turn out to be ND, it seems like it'll be very mild.

So these things can be a phase.

Thanks, I didn't see that

Um, not really, she's only 4?! Unless I'm missing something, I don't think loads of people do playdates before school age? We're relatively new to the area so she's been with the preschool about 9m, plays nicely with a couple of the children by all accounts, but I don't tend to see the parents at drop off/pick up, so haven't done that yet, she doesn't seem bothered anyway. Eldest has had a few playdates but not really since this has all kicked off, DD2 certainly wouldn't be bothered but I wouldn't be allowing her to play together if she was naked, no. She would tend to be too shy of DD1's friends anyway, as there's 3.5yr age gap so seems quite big at this age.

Thank you! This is very encouraging. I've been really flipping back and forth about what's best to do, some on here like you say urging urgent professional intervention, some like you vouching it can pass! We've had Grandma visiting today (worked in SEN support in schools for years), I mentioned about getting her assessed and she said 'Oh that's ridiculous, she's only 4!' Pointed out DH & BiL were both pretty anxious at similar age & both have successful careers, no social issues as adults. Actually had a breakthrough this morning where she voluntarily put something on in anticipation of Grandma's arrival (1st time without a battle in about a month!) then started taking it off again just before ETA saying it was annoying, but managed to grab her, take outside & distract with constant chatter - another indicator of it being related to transitions I think? Will be trying the tactics recommended here anyway and hope for improvement soon 🤞🏻🤞🏻 Thanks for sharing, glad your DD likes baths now!

They absolutely do have play dates. I have an almost 4yo and we’ve been doing them since around 2.5y. All with school friends. Go to the park, play at home, each others homes, etc. it’s definitely done where I am

I think you need some help. Go see your GP and ask for a referral. You haven’t got long before school starts.