To not make my 4yo wear clothes at home?

[Schnapps00]

4.5yo has always been a bit 'sensory', but for some reason it's really ramped up in the last couple of months and it's got to the point where we can't get her dressed in the morning if it's the weekend/for an outing. Currently travels naked in the car to preschool, wrap her in a towel and her teachers get her dressed inside the door (just T-shirt/shorts) 🙈 She seems to manage fine with them on all day, then will generally keep them on in the evening after nursery (we recently had the same T-shirt on 3 days straight 😬)

It's prolonged screaming/meltdown if we try at home, I've tried many times to just whip on a pair of shorts and pick her up/walk off, but it's thrashing/screaming/kicking/biting/scratching and pulling them down as soon as she's able to, lots of lots of dysregulation, up to 1.5hr bouts for other reasons (if she gets the clothes off she's generally ok again quickly) - general limits or things not going her way will also set her off.

Extends to other areas too, just started refusing nighttime pullup as well (luckily she seems to be mostly night training herself in the process there..!)

I'm not sure if we're setting her up for failure by 'letting' her go naked at home? It's got to the point where she sometimes wants to go out, but just can't deal with any clothes on, which is the part that concerns me/makes me sad.
Possibly related to impending school start, her big sis already goes to it, so she's very aware of change soon.. Extra needs or just exerting control where she can?

It's getting exhausting and I'm wondering where all this ends up..Had an initial chat with HV but no magic wands waved.

Thanks so much for any thoughts!!

I’m a reception teacher and if you haven’t already, you need to make your daughter’s new class teacher aware. We have occasionally helped a child to dress who wouldn’t get ready but they were in pyjamas but that was on rare occasions, maybe once or twice with one or two children. I don’t know how we’d manage the other 29 coming in and a naked child, we’d probably have to look at getting an extra member of staff from
another class to help.

Is it manageable for pre-school because they all start at different times? You call them teachers but is there a teacher and what’s the teachers opinion?

As you’ve realised, this is extreme behaviour and sounds really stressful for you. It’s either a battle of wills, with you taking a gentle approach (I don’t mean to sound rude but there are a lot of parents now who are powerless to tell their children and risk upsetting them) or your daughter has additional needs and you need more support. At our school our SENCO would be getting involved, looking at how we can prepare you and your daughter for the transition.

It doesn’t really matter what you call it - you can say ‘autistic’ or ‘extreme sensory sensitivity with uncontrollable meltdowns’ - the result and impact are the same. If you’re sure the issue is that she ‘can’t’ as opposed to ‘won’t’ then you need to find any support you can now before it escalates. You won’t have this option on the table soon and then what?

I don’t want to scare you, but this is very extreme behaviour and you’ll need as much time as possible to address it as you cannot keep taking your daughter out naked.

I work in a mainstream school and we would accommodate this, I’d dress the dc if it meant her coming to school vs not or coming in so disregulsted. I’ve had a boy in the past with asd who wouldn’t leave the house in school uniform as he wanted to go to the shop for ice cream etc and would only do that in regular clothes so parents would let him wear those to get him out the house but once inside the school building he’d totally melt down about not being in uniform so mum would bring a bag with unform in and I’d change him - so totally depends on the school so speak to them about your concerns. It’s not going to be ideal walking through the playground with a dc this age naked wrapped only in a towel though but I wonder if dc will realise this themselves?! Pants in the house is def something to work towards as she gets older. It’s inappropriate for guests, workmen etc for her to be totally naked moving around the home. As you say. Waiting lists are v long and help limited. Are you able to go private?

What impact is this having on your elder child? Are they able to access after school activities? Have friends round for play dates etc?

My child is ADHD and Autistic - so yes I do have issues to deal with. The fact ive suggested consequences and you've jumped to "shall I beat her then" makes me wonder - do you know how to discipline. Theres a lot of space inbetween doing nothing and beating a child to submit.

I would punish her yes, I would say that her behaviour was totally unacceptable and I would do something like take the TV away for the afternoon or evening, you can do that whilst being empathetic about her situation but a line has to be drawn - being "cruel" to be kind if you will. If nursery are sending you a photo of her happy as a clown 10 mins after you leave, then im inclined to think she's doing this for your benefit.

Look - you have to try something different - you can't possibly transport your naked child around in the car and take them to school in a towel. It's school uniform too, so it's not going to be a floaty cotton dress either.

Hello,
I am not an expert on SEN and my daughter is not, as far as I know, neurodiverse however she has a lot of sensory issues with food, smells and clothes. Though less serious than it sounds like you're dealing with, I'm sure you are doing a great job!

When she wouldnt get dressed I bought her a paper doll, who she could dress when she put on an item of clothing. I think it gave her a feeling of control, and the doll was only used for getting dressed so it was special and distracting. I don’t know if this would work because maybe the sensory issues she has would make it impossible but it was a real game changer for us.

I would also agree with it possibly being a transitions issue (both DD and DH are autistic) and have issues with clothes. DH especially, it’s not the clothing really which is the issue but when he is feeling overloaded it’s something he focuses on.

DD also has severe eczema.Not saying yours has anything like that but specialist eczema friendly clothing might help to get her into something.

Eczema clothing or happy skin are websites to look at. All designed light weight, no seams, breathable etc, so as little to annoy them as possible and can really help with sensory issues even if no physical cause.

OP this sounds exactly like my SD, although it all started properly for her when she was 10. She's always had a few issues around clothing though, even when she was little.

She literally only wears one outfit every single day, and has done so for over a year now, and thisnis progress from where she started - which is where your DD is now, refusing to go out or put on any clothes at all. She is in therapy for this and other issues too.

If she is able to wear shorts and t-shirt all day at nursery, perhaps there is a favourite amongst those that she could potentially handle wearing?? Even if it's always the same one.

I really feel for you though, it's horrific.

The book Big Baffling Behaviours is good for understanding what's going on in their head with the meltdowns/caged tiger reaction.

Definitely pursue assessment through NHS, but consider paying privately for occupational therapy to try and find a solution for the clothing issue as the NHS waiting list will be much longer and might not cover this.

OMG you’ve triggered me! Your experience reminds me of DS2 as a child (he’s now 30!). We felt the same as you but DS2 says ‘surely you realised I wasn’t normal!!’. He has audhd and the clothes issue went on for years (and still a bit now!) - clothes were ‘itchy’. I wish we’d got a diagnosis and help much earlier - it’s not a phase and it’s not you! Also you can’t dictate with them! Good luck 💐

Reading Ross Green’s ‘The explosive child’ helped but he was 13 before we began to ask for help/referral - I wish we’d done it when he was under 5! He was diagnosed as an ‘ODD’ child but this has changed now to Audhd - so there is on the one hand better understanding of ND but also some dismissal too (as seen but some comments on here!!). Good luck!

It sounds like this is something your daughter is struggling with as much as you. With my youngest, who is the most stubborn child you have ever met, this means very careful handling (and ignoring everyone telling you to punish/that wouldn't be acceptable in my house etc).

We didn't have any issues as problematic as yours, and not so young, so he was at least more able to understand and articulate even if he wouldn't.

But I learned this has to be approached slowly, and sideways. The closest to direct questions about what was stopping him with X was discussing it on a car drive, and backing off the moment the conversation got anything other than casual. Extracting the information he had for why he was refusing whatever it was occasionally took weeks, and slowly getting to where we need to be often took months (he once wore a wooly hat to school all the summer term while we were working on the requirement to tie his hair back - thank goodness the school was accommodating!)

Going at anything head on, trying the brisk chivvying, bargaining - none of this worked. Had to be done on his terms without him even knowing it was being done on his terms, and at a snails pace.

Ah heck, back to the drawing board! I think somehow you need to move the dressing away (in time) from other stuff. Eg "we'd like to go to [fun place] this afternoon. can you put some clothes on before then DD - whenever between now and then is fine."

Dressing probably need to be a game too - "ok, we have scratchy item number one, who will win, DD or the jumper - one two three GO!"

Like others upthread I think the clothes issue is less of a big deal than her overarching presentation. You say your nursery is great with SEND, I don't know if you have an understanding of her particular send needs? Have you thought much about the future and what you may need for the next few years? Get on the referrals list for diagnoses as soon as you possibly can, via the GP or health visitor or whoever.

You say you would pay the price of a new kitchen... obviously that's to show how difficult things are, and I fully sympathise! But literally and honestly if you have £6-7k in savings now, I would pay for a private autism assessment and a private occupational therapy sensory assessment as soon as you possibly can. Then you will be able to approach the new school with a good understanding of what she needs and professional records to back up.

Also not to scare you but for a child as young as yours who is already having profound sensory issues, you really need to get an EHCP under your belt asap. In 2030 she will be only 8, and given autism in girls, she might only be starting to present with proper school troubles and burnout at that point. You absolutely need provision in place before the SEND reforms make it more difficult for her to get the support she needs in a legally enforceable way.

(And that is one of the stupid unintended consequence of the reforms- we will see a boom in requesting EHCNAs this year).

Yes some have & some haven't, doesn't seem to make any difference, but probably worth removing them all just in case, thanks

Thank you for saying this. School are very good by all accounts but obviously don't want to be in this situation still in September. She sees her big sis go in in uniform at the moment, so I'm hopeful that'll it'll be reset we need..

This is a good idea, thank you - I'm totally oscillating now between giving her more choice/control and forcing them on her/punishing as some are suggesting, it's a minefield and I don't want to confuse her 🙈
She did really well this morning trying on new shorts she bought last night..first time voluntarily putting something on in about a month..they did come off 2 microseconds later but progress at least?!

Thank you. And had to smile at his comment! Imagining her in 25 short years saying something similar..😂🥲

Love this idea, thank you. 'The Paper dolls' is also one of our favourite books to read together so this is definitely going on the list ❤️

Brilliant, thank you. Will have a look at this (some mild eczema at 1/2yo but seems to have gone now luckily), if I know that there can't be any real discomfort involved that would be really helpful and can focus on enforcing the boundary/moving through the transition..

Thank you - I've listened to a lot of his podcasts and it's already been helpful with my eldest, such a good framework which I think everyone everywhere should use! 👌🏻 DD2 seems a bit young still to articulate what's going on (all we ever get is 'it's annoying'), but she has mentioned just yesterday that the clothes she had on were fine, not annoying - just difficult to get on, so it seems to come back to transitions again..This thread has been super helpful, I feel so much better than yesterday already ❤️

I think she accepts it's a current thing she's going through, DD1 is currently off pants herself (shorts instead) so she's no stranger to it either 🙈 Everyone we've had round (close friends/family) has luckily been v.understanding, my mum would probably be different but hasn't visited recently

Good idea, will try this, thank you👍🏻

We don't have an allocated teacher yet but due to visit/meet them in June, school called nursery yesterday apparently to talk about transition so it sounds like they're being great & proactive, obviously 3m is quite a long time for a 4yo too though so I don't want to build it up into a giant thing before she's due to start..visit next month will be a litmus test for sure though 😬

We could potentially go private, I think paediatric OT seems to be worth exploring by the sounds of it 👍🏻