To think some older women having tax payers funded ivf are hypocrites?

[Spiderbug]

There seems to be a substantial group of people who are ok with calling teen mums a waste of their tax money but then leave child bearing too late and expect the tax payers to foot the bill for their multiple ivf cycles which costs the tax payer up to 100 million a year.

Hypocrites!!!

Terrible typos apologies

Yes, but 15 is young and was even considered so so several 100 years ago. Lots of the poor kids who were married off as babies were not expected to be entering real marriage and childbearing until they were about 16, sometimes older. The 13 year old Margaret Beaufort (mother of the Tudor dynasty) was unusual, thankfully . She was so young that it destroyed her ability to ever bear another child.

No it’s really not. Teenage pregnancy comes with a lot of risks as well.

Very young pregnancy (13 or 14) yes but most 15 year olds have uncomplicated pregnancies, easy labours and recover quickly. Of course 18 or 19 is lower risk still and 24/25 probrably lowest risk of all

You know what, by this reasoning we should just scrap all state support for anything. No is entitled to anything and should just pay for it all themselves. That would have left you with a baby and no money and nowhere to live as a teenager though and you wouldn't have liked that would you? The hypocrite here is you.

I am sorry to hear you have had a hard time for being a teen mum. I have never heard anyone be negative about teen mums. It would have been more I thing when I was young(I left school in 1988) but teen pregnancies are much reduced. Of my cohort, one had a baby at 16 and it was adopted. One has a miscarriage at 17. One had an abortion at 16 and I know of 3 who had babies by 18. Of my son’s friends, I know of none (he is 19) and of his year just one boy who is now a dad.

If I heard of a teen mum I would be surprised. If someone I knew, then supportive. My friend runs baby groups and I know she would be supportive.

I know you say your post probably isn’t aimed at me but I just wanted to add, a lot of the mums who have babies later haven’t left it too late. They could have had fertility issues regardless. I ttc in my early 20s. It didn’t happen. Then we split. I met my sons dad in my late 20s and it took almost 4 years of ttc before DS was born. I then was unable to conceive again. We decided against IVF but had I gone down that road, I wouldn’t really be because I waited.

I think it is reasonable for you to be pissed if you were badly treated but the majority of women having IVF won’t think that way.

But physical outcomes aren’t the only factor to consider are they?

You’re hilarious OP. Chip on your shoulder much? 🤣

Of course not and I am not advocating young parenthood ( by which I mean before 17). But having a child at 18-30 isn't the disaster it is made out to be in society generally - it is what we were designed to do. Social views have swung too far on this one. Older parenthood is inherently risky the risks should be more widely known to allow people to make better informed choices.

So do most 36 year olds

@Neurodiversitydoctor i don’t know why you are so hung up on people having pregnancy at the exact “prime” time of 24/25. In real life that isn’t going to work for people Also no one bats an eyelid in most circles at pregnancy mid twenties plus . Stop making yourself out to be some tragic victim of mistreatment by the masses because you had a baby as an adult at a perfectly normal age

I don’t think anyone suggests becoming a parent in your mid to late twenties is a disaster, it’s just not financially viable for very many people. If we want to see younger mothers (and i differ from you in thinking that’s necessary) then we need a big cultural
shift. And I think that shift might result in fewer births overall, as women may hear the message that it’s too late past a certain age (the cliff edge myth). If we want fewer births but to younger mothers, ok, I just don’t see the advantage.

No, you probably won't have.

There is no problem with people taking from a system they've paid into for many many years. They cannot continuously access IVF services. It's often only one cycle, if they are accepted at all. So far less cost than a teenage mother.

"As I’ve said many times this is only about the hypocrites who are ok taking things from tax payers"

Sweetie, they ARE the taxpayers 🤷‍♀️

You are way too hung up on this false equivalency of yours, continuing to whine 'but hypocrisy'. There IS hypocrisy and, if you look up the definition, you may feel a little embarrassed about where the hypocrisy is actually coming from 😬

Tragic victim ? No biological realist more like.

No I just mean no one with any ounce of intelligence would describe a fully grown adult at the cusp of their 30s having a baby as a “disaster “ so get over yourself basically

Teen mums are ridiculous. Now we have so many ways in which to deal with an unwanted pregnancy or emergency contraception.
They make a choice to get pregnant as a teen.
People with infertility issues deserve the chance to have IVF. That’s all.

Just relating my experience is all, I do not consider myself a victim. Interestingly now in our '50s many of our friends say they wish they had got on with it and not delayed so long. DS's girl friend relating a tale of a aqquaintence of her parents who was horrified and ashamed of her DS becoming a father at age 22.

I hate the shaming of any mums, whatever their age. But there seems to be a particular vitriol on here towards older mums. Yes there are risks having a baby older but they are still LOW. The overwhelming majority of older mums will still go onto to have healthy babies. You'd read on here that it was practically a given that a women over 35 will end up with something catastrophically wrong with them or their baby.

Yes it is biologically best to have to have a baby in your 20s but they are other factors that also contribute to having a baby. Meeting the right partner, having a stable income, roof over your head etc. For a lot of people these things aren't possible or don't happen until later on in life. What are women meant to do. Just not have children past the age of 35?

It seems as women we can't win. We're either too young or too old. Not having enough children or having too many children. Then told there's a population decline and when we have children to help with this, told were having them at the wrong age.

It's almost like people think the biological impact of pregnancy and birth on the woman's body is the ONLY thing to consider.

Doesn't seem to matter what kind of life the child might have. If we're being entirely realistic, it's easier on the body at 20 than at 35. But, can the average 20 year old provide financial stability the same as the average 35 year old? It's much easier to go back to work in a career you've established yourself in, with the flexibility you need for children, than it is to then build your career and reputation around parenting a small child.

Then think about housing these days. Can the average 20 year old afford to live in a decent school area in house with space for children? At 20 I was still living at home, because of uni, my sister didn't go to uni but didn't move out til her late 20s because she couldn't afford to. Should a child have been brought into relationships while we didn't live with our partners, and it would have disrupted OUR parents lives?

Women who do deliberately wait aren't only thinking of themselves, of enjoying their 20s etc. They're thinking about the life they can provide a child.

Why are they judged for that?

With the best will in the world a 22 year old man is unlikely to be in a position to provide for a family without considerable assistance from the state, no? The 22 year old is likely still living at home.

It depends what kind of 22 year old you mean. If you mean a brand new graduate, you’re right. If you mean someone who left school at 16, completed an apprenticeship and is now working as a tradesman, it’s perfectly possible for him to provide for a family.

Well if he had been the latter, why would his parents have been so horrified?

Because 22 is still very young and I guess they’d prefer him to have a bit more life experience. These things aren’t just about money.

The person making the claim is the one that should prove the evidence to support their claim. You should be giving the source of your information as support.

That should be a reliable source. Eg HEFA figures on ages of those having treatment.

Ever thought about the fact that those having treatment may have been trying for a baby for years. They may have gone to a gp and been told to try for longer. They may have had several tests, or been on waiting lists for tests before being referred for treatment. There is then a waiting list for treatment. All of those could push up average age.

At University final year. I think the plan is a rented flat and a job, not in the South East which makes it easier. But my point is it should be easier less noteworthy society needs to align with biology because biology aint shifting.