“You’re not going on your own” - caring or controlling? AIBU?

[Samuelthespaniel]

My husband and I had words over the possibility of a solo trip (it was just an idea) yesterday and I think he may be the unreasonable party but I thought I’d ask in case I am genuinely missing something important here.

For context, married 4 years, no kids. Basically I brought up the idea of a city break I’d like to go on. We normally travel together with the exception of when I go on weekend trips with a friend or family or for work (which so far has only involved flying to a neighbouring country where I have family).

When I first mentioned it yesterday he essentially said “off with you” but his reaction later makes me think that this earlier comment was said because he thought I was joking. DH has no holidays left to take this year, I can WFH. I was considering doing a 3-4 night stay in this city and doing all of the things that I wouldn’t like to bore him with when we travel together eg taking myself off for a facial, some activities (think craft type things, etc). Great, I thought. I can WFH from the hotel and afterwards check out the landmarks, some shopping, etc. it would be my first solo trip in the sense that it would be the first time I’ve travelled alone purely for leisure for that amount of time, but I was looking forward to it and thought it would actually be good for my personal development.

Spoke about it again last night as I told DH about things that I don’t think he’d particularly enjoy doing that I was looking at doing in the city, and he said yeah but you’d need someone to watch your back there. I said I’m sure it would be fine, it’s a relatively safe city by any standard. He said “I’m not restricting you, you just can’t go on your own. Why don’t you wait til next year and see if (name of friend) can go with you. I said it’s not really the point, my friend might not want to go and I was particularly enjoying the prospect of going by myself. I

said I don’t see what it’s really got to do with you (perhaps this was wrong in hindsight). He said we’re married, we do everything together, to which I said that plenty of married people solo travel and he said “I don’t care, I don’t have to worry about them”. I said well ultimately it’s my choice and I have autonomy over my own actions.

He said that if I ignore his feelings then he’ll remember this for again and that we’ll have a big problem when I get back and that’s all he’s going to say, and that it’s not a threat. I replied by saying it does sound like a bit of a threat really. He said he didn’t want to hear anything else from me for the rest of the night, which also felt a bit patronising and like I was being chastised.

I should also mention that at some point in the conversation he asked why I needed to go away so often and I already go away 3-4 times a year with him and what’s the rush and do I want to just take a year out and travel or something and if that’s the case go off and do it (although I don’t see how that would be fine by him but a 3-4 city break isn’t, but anyway). I said that no, I don’t want to take a year out to go travelling and I’m perfectly happy with my life the way it is, but he said the signs are there that I want to be away all the time. I do like to go away, but it’s not to escape anything as such, I really do just like to see new places and thought it would be a good opportunity. I mean, I don’t question why he goes to the gym 3-4 times per week. I don’t feel like it’s any of my business. But I think I should be allowed to explore my hobbies as well.

Sorry this was so long! But does anyone have any experience of this? Did you go anyway? Did you decide against it?

I think he's worried about you being beyond his control, rather than being worried about your safety.

That's the crux of it really.

It's very easy for some men to dress control up as concern about safety because they know how difficult it is too argue against someome being concerned for you because they care.

I think you both used language which would have made the other angrier..
I think an adult conversation was needed, not you saying it was non of his business, and him saying he’d effectively sulk forever if you go!
I would leave things to calm then raise it again telling him that he has the gym to unwind and that this trip for you is you exploring your hobbies and interests. If his concern is you going alone and your safety then this is valid and maybe you could sit together and come up with plans to keep you safe. Or if this wouldn’t work, you present him with your strategies to stay safe.
i think to say if you went he’d remember it forever is very immature …. Like he can’t think of an adequate punishment right now.

Also telling you not to say another word all evening is extremely rude, how you’d talk to a child not an equal partner’

Well, I dunno, he could have some genuine anxiety about travel and maybe he needs company himself to feel safe in a foreign land especially given that the OP can't leave him alone when they're travelling together. And he's projecting all that onto the OP.

We can see it's not a real-world concern because he can't give an example of how the OP is not "street smart" so he has to resort to "in every way". (It does make me wonder if he's ever done sex tourism and he's drawing on some knowledge and guilt about that.)

The fact that he's already resorting to threats - albeit vague ones - when the OP stands up for herself is a big worry about the relationship.

Anyway, the trouble is that anxiety gets worse if you give into it. It only grows more intense next time the same situation comes up and it also extends into new situations. So if the OP "reassures" him by not going alone on her trip he'll only be more anxious next time she travels by herself on business or with family. And he'll put more pressure on her.

I took myself off to London twice while still living with my ex-H because I wanted to see a band he doesn't like. (I've done it since, but it was the first time I'd gone to a gig by myself and stayed somewhere overnight by myself.) There was a bit of grumbling but he didn't make an arse of himself at least. Tell him to jog on.

if I ignore his feelings then he’ll remember this for again and that we’ll have a big problem when I get back and that’s all he’s going to say

And that's not a threat? I'd be very interested to hear what the Big Problem when you get back is going to be, and how that demonstrates his supposed care for you.

The only acceptable response to, I'm going on a trip to XX for a few nights, would be, excellent, tell me about your plans, have fun, do you need a lift to the airport.

FUCK THAT. You haven't mentioned if there's an age gap here, might there be? There's definitely an issue with the power dynamic.

I don’t understand your point.
Your DH is working. Lots of people work in all sorts of locations.
But she said she can go away for a break and work all at the same time. I can only assume she means she works part time.

She said:

" Great, I thought. I can WFH from the hotel and afterwards check out the landmarks, some shopping, etc"

What are you not getting? You work from 9-12 or 1, go out for a bit on your lunch break, work 2-5 then go and sightsee/have dinner. It's light pretty late.

Your point seemed to be that he wouldn't believe she will work from the hotel. Why?

And I think there are too many red flags here for second chances! I don't think that she has to justify it. My late husband used to go away on trip with his friends and I used to go to London to see my Mum and do the shops and we didn't sit down and come up with plans to keep each other safe because we were bloody adults. Assuming there are no joint responsibilities that need to be allowed for, he only acceptable response to "I am going away xxx" is "have a lovely time"

If you go, he's going to use this as an excuse to disappear out when you have plans or start keeping things secret. He'll argue you created this new dynamic.

Unless your weekend trip is to Baghdad he needs to stop infantilising you and get over himself.

Red flags a-go go, I'm afraid. You are an autonomous adult and can choose what you wish to do. The language around that is horrid too.

You met him as a teenager ?
In what circumstances ?
What is the age gap ?
The whole scenario sounds concerning to me.
Make sure you don't start a baby with him.
Belt and braces.
It's nothing to do with relative safety of cities or experience of travel etc.
He simply expects nay demands to be in charge.
Note trying to undermine your self confidence by saying you are not street smart.
As if he has superior knowledge to pronounce on that.
Get out now.
To the trip.
To the rest of your life.
Ducks in a row.
Do not forewarn him.
Keep your powder dry.
All the best.

Everything that PP said @Samuelthespaniel and also pointing out that he is using binary thinking and absolutist language which is a typical control tactic that shuts down conversations (and is confusing as it seems hard to disagree with in the moment).

I can spot this a mile off as my EX coercively controlling husband used to do the same all the time.

He is presenting "either you don't go, or you want to take a whole year off": those are not the only two options!

The same for "married people do everything together": presented as an absolute rule with no room for nuance, when plenty of healthy marriages include independent interests and solo trips.

More concerning is the sulking/stonewalling/shutting down/emotional blackmail and THREAT of trouble when you get back.

Also, and this gets bit subtle but he is blatantly telling you what he IS doing while at the same time denying it: "I’m not restricting you, you just can’t go on your own." - he IS restricting you but making the ultimate behaviour your choice.

It's like saying "I'm not saying you can't go out with Janet, but I would seriously question your judgment" or "I'm not saying you can't go away but there will be consequences if you do."

The technique being used here is that it makes YOU alter your behaviour and he can hide behind saying "I didn't say you couldn't do it" - you're just picking up on the unsaid threat and implication those statements are laced with and adapting your behaviour, which is the very definition of coercive control.

Hope OP is reading these replies.

Why do you think she wouldn't be? Even if she didn't do much work when there, and did more holidaying - so?
It's her time away, she shouldn't have to justify how much work she would or wouldn't be doing to him, if he's "suspicious" that's his problem to manage, not hers. He either trusts her or he doesn't.

If she works from home usually, or works flexibly and her employers don't have an issue with it, what's the problem?

I'm an academic. As long as I'm there for my classes and office hours, fulfil my admin responsibilities, supervise my reseach students etc etc, then my line managers don't care where I am writing up research etc. I could easily take my laptop to Tangiers/Chicago/Marseille/Naples for a few days, work during the day much as usual and sight-see etc in my free time.

You are not joined at the hip but perhaps your husband is. .

Go away on your trip.

Your personal safety is a matter for you not him. You are an adult who was making these decisions before you married.

It's control and he sees you as your property and is infantilising you as incapable of making decisions for yourself.

If he decides its a deal breaker, that's his decision.

It's really no ok.

If he does it over this, he will do it over other things. You do not want to have children with a man who thinks you are incapable of making adult decisions alone and that he is lord and master of your personal safety.

Tell him you are going and he can spend the time reflecting on this.

What is the difference in age between you both? It comes across as an authoritarian parent dictating what the “foolish, irresponsible young child” is permitted to do…. I would not stay if threatened like that, or treated with such contempt.

Exactly. We've done this plenty of times - gone somewhere for a few days and DH has worked a couple of the days to save some annual leave (and save money on the flights etc as Fridays/Sundays are more expensive). I can't WFH so don't do the same.

Good for you but you seriously need to talk to him if you want children as the red flags are huge, hes the type of man that will say you are a mother now and thats your role and youre not going anywhere, and if you disobey him will try and take the children from you

OP, I would want to know what these ‘consequences’ would be.

I urge you not to have kids with this man. I have worked in MH for 30y and his attitude towards you is making me very uncomfortable.

Such a red flag. I know you are married but I would seriously consider your future here. Have a baby with him and you’re not only tied for life and less easily able to start over, you are also more likely to see him escalate his controlling ways at a time you can least push back against them. It may seem like a small thing but he’s really saying he will punish you for not abiding by him, it’s nothing to do with your safety (surely if you come back safe there’s nothing more to say?!) He would be able to control you around your child’s ‘safety’ too.

He''s controlling, patronising, threatening (of course saying he’ll remember this for again and that we’ll have a big problem when you get back is a threat!) and now he's being emotionally manipulative ('not talking about it anymore' and 'if I want him to care I’m not doing a very good job.'
I want you to have this trip and have a nice time, but I also think you have bigger problems.

I assumed from the thread title that this was a dispute between parents about letting a youngster to town on their own for the first time.
Might as well be from his point of view except he has co opted OP as a sort of wife child figure that he is in charge of.
This does not bode well.
If anyone is doubting this
Read up on coercive control.

As well as behaving like a petulant child, he is using every trick in the book @Samuelthespaniel

He is now trying to guilt trip you and diminish you (control tactics) by trying to redefine your character in his preferred image (e.g., naive, unaware, etc).

This also forces you to defend yourself from multiple angles instead of discussing the original point: whether you are allowed to make an autonomous decision!

He is also taking a pompous and authoritarian stance to try and make his case appear more sound, whereas it is rubbish.

Well done for staying grounded and clear headed!

Trust your gut (and seriously consider your marriage, it is controlling).

Some of his responses are extremely nasty and unreasonable. They are designed to make you feel bad about yourself and as if you are in the wrong for hurting/neglecting him, when you are doing nothing of the sort. I cannot imagine my DH speaking to me like that.

In the last few years i have travelled completely on my own, for pleasure, on a few occasions. I have had a week in Malaysia, a few days in Stockholm and a few days in Washington DC. I have recently booked flights for a two week trip on my own to Georgia and Armenia and am very excited. My DH does not bat an eyelid!