“You’re not going on your own” - caring or controlling? AIBU?

[Samuelthespaniel]

My husband and I had words over the possibility of a solo trip (it was just an idea) yesterday and I think he may be the unreasonable party but I thought I’d ask in case I am genuinely missing something important here.

For context, married 4 years, no kids. Basically I brought up the idea of a city break I’d like to go on. We normally travel together with the exception of when I go on weekend trips with a friend or family or for work (which so far has only involved flying to a neighbouring country where I have family).

When I first mentioned it yesterday he essentially said “off with you” but his reaction later makes me think that this earlier comment was said because he thought I was joking. DH has no holidays left to take this year, I can WFH. I was considering doing a 3-4 night stay in this city and doing all of the things that I wouldn’t like to bore him with when we travel together eg taking myself off for a facial, some activities (think craft type things, etc). Great, I thought. I can WFH from the hotel and afterwards check out the landmarks, some shopping, etc. it would be my first solo trip in the sense that it would be the first time I’ve travelled alone purely for leisure for that amount of time, but I was looking forward to it and thought it would actually be good for my personal development.

Spoke about it again last night as I told DH about things that I don’t think he’d particularly enjoy doing that I was looking at doing in the city, and he said yeah but you’d need someone to watch your back there. I said I’m sure it would be fine, it’s a relatively safe city by any standard. He said “I’m not restricting you, you just can’t go on your own. Why don’t you wait til next year and see if (name of friend) can go with you. I said it’s not really the point, my friend might not want to go and I was particularly enjoying the prospect of going by myself. I

said I don’t see what it’s really got to do with you (perhaps this was wrong in hindsight). He said we’re married, we do everything together, to which I said that plenty of married people solo travel and he said “I don’t care, I don’t have to worry about them”. I said well ultimately it’s my choice and I have autonomy over my own actions.

He said that if I ignore his feelings then he’ll remember this for again and that we’ll have a big problem when I get back and that’s all he’s going to say, and that it’s not a threat. I replied by saying it does sound like a bit of a threat really. He said he didn’t want to hear anything else from me for the rest of the night, which also felt a bit patronising and like I was being chastised.

I should also mention that at some point in the conversation he asked why I needed to go away so often and I already go away 3-4 times a year with him and what’s the rush and do I want to just take a year out and travel or something and if that’s the case go off and do it (although I don’t see how that would be fine by him but a 3-4 city break isn’t, but anyway). I said that no, I don’t want to take a year out to go travelling and I’m perfectly happy with my life the way it is, but he said the signs are there that I want to be away all the time. I do like to go away, but it’s not to escape anything as such, I really do just like to see new places and thought it would be a good opportunity. I mean, I don’t question why he goes to the gym 3-4 times per week. I don’t feel like it’s any of my business. But I think I should be allowed to explore my hobbies as well.

Sorry this was so long! But does anyone have any experience of this? Did you go anyway? Did you decide against it?

Book it and plan it. Try to involve him in the arrangements. You will definitely know then if he is just a moany old prick or if he is genuinely concerned about certain areas in the city you should avoid etc. etc.

It will the big test. It has to be done, and based on his reaction to you going, you will have time away from him to assess your situation.

I cannot understand this thing about men not wanting their partners to go away without them. I'm sure they wouldn't hesitate to go away with the lads and wouldn't want their partner anywhere near them!

One of the strengths of a relationship IMV is the trust element. Think about that OP.

I go off and see friends and luckily can stay over in some houses, other times I am in a hotel and Dh worries about me because of the lone female in a hotel part.

But he has never threatened me, told me we must do things together and only together. He has never used something I do as an excuse to deliberately hurt me at a later date.

He isn't hurt that I go away, he just misses me and I miss him but I don't think he wants to walk around a quilting fair somehow and I would rather go with my best mate who loves sewing too but who sadly lives several hours away from me.

This is screaming red flags OP and you know it. This is the time to sit down with him and try to unpick his behaviour. It might be that he hasn't seen it for what it is, controlling and abusive.

Does Lundy Bancroft's book cover this? The book is called Why Does He Do That and it is available as a pdf online. It gets recommended on her all the time. Have a look.

You overreacted and goaded him, ".

What did the OP say that was goady or an over-reaction? I re-read her post and I can't see it myself.

Bloody hell OP, this is quite sinister.
You might resolve it by asking to start the conversation again, saying that you have decided to go but you appreciate that he's worried and ask if you can reassure him on any particular points. Eg, if you are planning to stay in the more popular areas when out at night, or if you are taking a personal alarm with you, you can tell him that. You might even consider any suggestions he has for staying safe. But he's not in charge of you, you are not a child, and he needs telling that.

Well, id be going right ahead and booking it and just carrying on as if his threats were in my imagination tbh, thats how little his views would matter to me.

RED FLAG ALERT!

My DH used to do this to me. You're not doing that, and you're not going there. etc etc etc. Didn't last long, as I don't take too kindly to being told what to do. I did what I wanted and told him if he wanted a woman he could boss about and take control of, he should have married someone else.

I HATE people telling me what to do/what's best for me/how I should be doing this and that etc etc. I am my own person with agency and capacity, and I'm not a fucking child.

Are you a man ? Because you’re presenting OP’s DH’s case very nicely. He’s exhibiting controlling and coercive behaviour and treating his wife as though she is a child. ‘I don’t want to hear anything from you for the rest of the night’ is no way to be speaking to someone who is supposed to be your life partner and equal.

Can you point out where OP either over reacted or goaded ? She made a perfectly reasonable suggestion. His response to it was unacceptable, and the fact that she’s posting here is very likely because this is the first sign of problem behaviour. So advising her to meet that response by considering whether she’s going to be happy in the relationship in twenty years time is utterly unconscionable when the reality is that if she continues as they are, in twenty years time she will either be divorced or reduced to an isolated nervous wreck, not allowed to do anything or go anywhere alone, terrified of upsetting him, and likely beaten regularly too.

The posters here advocating ending the relationship are very likely those who have experienced this behaviour, know how it starts, how it progresses and how OP will end up if she submits to it.

I went solo travelling for a few days earlier this year. The conversation went along the lines of:
"I'd like to go here, would that be OK childcare wise with you"
"Yes great, its important you do this for yourself, you do so much at home, have a great time and don't worry about a thing".

You might look back one day on your life and realise how much you missed out on because of this man. While you are healthy, able, have the money and the time then you should absolutely do what you want to do with your life. Your years are precious.

I think he's worried about you being beyond his control, rather than being worried about your safety.

In your position I would be planning to leave, then you can do all the solo holidays you want without him threatening you.

You are a person in your own right (separate from him)

Yes, he is controlling. Tell him absence makes the heart grow fonder.

I am currently single, but if/when I date again I will be doing trips alone (hiking/city breaks)

"Sit down together and discuss it and then come to a decision"
Why? OP made a decision: to have a city break.

"He said that if I ignore his feelings then he’ll remember this for again and that we’ll have a big problem when I get back and that’s all he’s going to say, and that it’s not a threat. I replied by saying it does sound like a bit of a threat really. He said he didn’t want to hear anything else from me for the rest of the night, which also felt a bit patronising and like I was being chastised."

This is worrying. So he thinks you should stop doing things just because of his 'feelings' when there is no negative impact on him that can be demonstrated objectively (you're not expecting him to partly fund this or cover some obligation for you while you're away?). Yet he can decide which of your concerns he is prepared to hear!!?

I've been married a very long time, am mid sixties with minor health problems (so more 'vulnerable' than you?) but am looking forward to travelling solo to several European cities in a few weeks. My husband encourages me - sometimes we travel together, sometimes we don't. We enjoy different things.

However, seeing your update about your relationship generally, is there any chance this caught him off guard and that he dug his heels in, in the heat of the moment? I'd talk to him about his response and focus on this more than the trip as it seems more important - how disappointed and hurt you were by his assumption that he had the right to tell you not to do something just because he didn't like it. Point out how you wouldn't dream of stopping him going off on his own for a hobby weekend just because you'd run out of annual leave to come too.

If he says he doesn't want to hear any more then my answer would be that if he wants the marriage to continue, he's not only going to have to hear it, he'll have to listen very carefully. There's a balance between taking care of each other and being kind & respectful whilst not allowing one person's unreasonable 'feelings' to dictate the life of other family members. I'd suggest he needs to recalibrate this balance before you think about children.

I dont even know where to start with this one!
OK im 60. I have two children who are now adults. I have always had more annual leave than dh.
I love travelling whether its in the uk or abroad and have travelled solo since I was 19.
When the boys were in primary school I would sometimes have a long weekend away by myself if the boys were doing things with their dad that I wasn't interested in, eg farming stuff, car maintenance etc. I would get a cheap flight of skyscanner and use booking.com. I would face time them and we would all chat together about our day.
Dh would encourage me to go ''what else are you going to do, you'll just end up doing housework "
As they got older I would travel for longer going to places like Serbia, Uzbekistan and Albania ( before it became popular)

Not once has dh told me it would be an issue for our marriage. I am more adventurous and he is a somebody. He recognises that. The only time he was concerned was when I had planned to go to Belarus but I couldn't go anyway.

I’m not restricting you, you just can’t go on your own. He contradicted himself in one sentence!

He said that if I ignore his feelings then he’ll remember this for again and that we’ll have a big problem when I get back and that’s all he’s going to say, and that it’s not a threat
Yes, that definitely is a threat!

A husband should want you to shine and make the most of yourself. Your Dh wants to deliberately hold you back.
If he is genuinely serious about your safety what on earth does he think is going to happen when you are doing a bit of crafting?

To the poster that said Why would you WFH when you’re on a jolly? Would your work permit that?
We are allowed to work anywhere in the UK as long as we are working when we are supposed to be. Once we finish work our downtime is our own whether we are in York, Chester or Edinburgh!

But he makes it sound like you're going some where like Marrakesh - I wouldn't go solo there (and I've been around!).

and? What if she wanted to go to Marrakech. Its alright for her dh to limit her choices and and say where she can and cannot go. Doesnt she have agency and not allowed to think for herself. Its not my favourite place but I would go back by myself again.

Im planning on South Korea solo next year as Dh has a big project on that will keep him busy. He doesn't put travel restrictions on me because he knows I've done my research, knows that I know how to keep myself safe as much as I can. I am likely to face danger walking around certain sorts of my town at night than I am in some of the countries I've gone to solo and prepped for by looking into their laws and expectations of tourists as well as local scams etc.

Get out of this marriage. This will not get better.

If you don't go now, he knows his behaviour works and will ramp up. You'll end up never doing anything without his "permission."

If you do go, he will be a nightmare when you get back. You may push back and maybe you'll keep pushing back for a while, but what will happen is, one day you'll think to yourself, "I'd like to do this thing but it's not worth all the grief from him" and you won't do it. And then that will be your life.

It's the frog in boiling water situation.

This might sound like a dramatic extrapolation from this incident but the pattern is so common that those of us who have been in controlling relationships can see it a mile away.

Oh, hell no! I love going away by myself for a weekend (in fact I am doing soon 😁) and no way would I be putting up with that shit!

He said “I’m not restricting you, you just can’t go on your own
Um... yes, he is restricting you. He's telling you you "can't" go by yourself.

He said that if I ignore his feelings then he’ll remember this for again and that we’ll have a big problem when I get back and that’s all he’s going to say, and that it’s not a threat. I replied by saying it does sound like a bit of a threat really. He said he didn’t want to hear anything else from me for the rest of the night, which also felt a bit patronising and like I was being chastised
Emotional blackmail, and telling you to be quiet for the rest of the night?! Who does he think he is?!
You're not a child.
Go. Don't let him set a precedent. What would he do if you did? "Big problem when you get back" 🙄
Like what? Call his bluff. If you don't feel you'd be safe doing that, then there's your answer to ditch him as he'd clearly be a wrong un.

"I go on weekend trips with a friend or family or for work (which so far has only involved flying to a neighbouring country where I have family)."

So he's presumably fine with all of that? It's just the solo trip that's sent him over the edge?

I went to Australia on my own without my then husband. He didn't want to go, I had always wanted to go so I went. He was OK about it even though I was away for 6 weeks! We did eventually split years later but it wasn't about me going on holidays alone. If you're only going on a city break I don't see the problem.

Sounds like this is coming from a place of insecurity/control. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt and tell him calmly one more time-its really important to me that I get to do this solo trip by myself for a few days. I would feel much better about going if you supported it. You have to trust me that I will put my safety first and am a confident solo traveller. And feck it then I would go anyway.

Lots of different things really, he doesn't want her to go, he may not relish being left alone for several days, he may be worried about safety travelling around a strange city alone even if it is relatively safe, he does not like that she is not considering his opinion or his feelings. And saying she can do what ever she likes and it's nothing to do with him may be true, but is pretty hurtful if you are in a loving relationship.

Unfortunate words were said on both sides and one or both are going to be upset one way or another now, he will be upset if she goes, she may not enjoy it as much as she hoped if she knows he is stewing at home. She will be upset and resentful if she doesn't go and he may feel guilty for stopping her.

This is a sliding door moment in your marriage Op, what you deceide to do next will have consequences. If you agree not to go he'll know he can just tell you no and you'll give in, if you go regardless he'll see it as disrespect and you not caring what he wants. The question is, are you prepared to live a smaller life to sooth his insecurities?

That is exactly the passage that leapt off the page for me too. It bears requoting.

This is the problem, right here.

Insecurity and anxiety are often used as control tactics. if the insecurity/anxiety is real, that is somethign for the person experiencing it to deal with, not the people in their lives.

My irrational fear is of a late night car accident. If I had my way, no one would ever travel late at night in the car. needless to say, I woudl never ever ever tell DH he can't travel at night in the car. that's MY issue, and I have to deal with it.

I just spoke to him and asked him to clarify that indeed he said we would have a problem and there would be consequences if I went. He said yes because I completely disregarded and ignored his views on safety. I told him that that was unacceptable for me and that he can’t decide for me whether I go somewhere or not and he said it’s like talking to a wall and that the amount of young women who have been targeted is unsafe and that I didn’t listen to him because he clearly said that if I find a friend to go with at least there’s two of us.

I did emphasise that I have been flying alone since I was 14 and getting about the capital city that I grew up in from about 12 so I’d be fine. He said I’m not street smart, I questioned in what way exactly? He replied “in every way” (this is despite things such as me pointing out common scams to him in cities we have visited eg the age-old shoe polish scam in Istanbul where I told my husband not to pick up the dropped brush as it was a known scam), navigating my way through the subway stations in Asia (which he was all too happy for me to do and actually complimented), learning a few phrases of the local language before we travel, etc so it’s puzzling how suddenly I’ve lost these skills.

I told him yesterday was appalling and he said he didn’t speak to me like anything and that he is responsible for my safety (I replied that I am responsible for my own safety). He said I’m making out like he doesn’t trust me, I said not at all. He said go then and he’s not talking about it anymore and that if I want him to care I’m not doing a very good job. I said indeed I would be going and always was irrespective of his views. So there’s that I suppose.

how does he feel about you going out without him near home/work?

Does he insist on picking you up and dropping you off at all times?

Why is your safety "his responsibility"?

Is he much older than you? When you were at universitry separately to him did you feel you couldn't go out or party or do things without updating him at all times?

That’s one of the most outrageously stupid things I’ve read on here. He’s an adult, presumably with friends and family and a job. He can cope with his wife not being at home for four days. (DH is away in another country at the moment for fun. I was in another country solo for five days in January, and went away to stay with friends last month. This is completely normal for married people. We’ve also been away together with our DS.) He doesn’t get to veto trips on safety grounds — she’s going on a short city break, not parachuting into downtown Mogadishu in the middle of the civil war.

Of course she’s ’considering his feelings’, she just, quite rightly, thinks his feelings, on this, are ridiculous.