To think compulsory national service for young people could be helpful for many?

[Jane379]

The recent thread on benefits generational cycle got me thinking...could compulsory national service period help some young people, including ones like these?

Or would it make things worse?

Around 5% of eligible people in Sweden actually do it.

I think part of the difficulty is some people are trying to be all things with one scheme. There's this idea that there are useful things to be done and people not doing anything so marry the two up and problem solved.

So for example, some posters are talking about NEETs, others national security and others what would help the NHS, vet nurses and various other jobs. They're not necessarily all the same thing.

NEETs are quite a small percentage of the young adult population, so while it's not impossible all the people who'd be most useful to the army in countering the Russian threat are NEETs, it's unlikely. Odds are there's some overlap but also two separate issues. There's no reason to think the training of vet nurses would benefit from the state deciding on the intake. Maybe the young people who would be most useful in the NHS are also the ones who'd be most useful in the Navy, so a choice might have to be made. The best way to assist 18 year olds with anxiety into the workforce isn't necessarily going to be through state organised schemes and might exclude any night work altogether. And so on.

the issue with these is that it's always the same parents who will invite their kids to join, and it's mainly kids who need it the least who join - it's a huge plus, don't get me wrong, but they are the kids with a busy life already and experiences.

The ones who are left behind are the usual, who are not raised properly by their parents who are either to lazy or too anxious, or have such a massive chip on their shoulder they raise their kids pretending the entire world is against them, poor kids, with anxiety, high living cost, few jobs nonsense. It's hard, but those who want manage.

It's nothing to do with money, it's attitude, sadly

Mother of the year. Well done.

Agree, as long as there's a non military option and it's not undercutting employment. It's a great social leveller. My DH did natiknal service and he agrees. Lots of places have a form of it, e.g. Switzerland.

you are feeling better? 😊 You must be having a terrible day.

Interestingly it's only for men in Switzerland.

If you look at the societies where only males are required to do national service and females get the choice, it's only ever a small minority of women who opt in. Says something about how desirable it is.

I'm early 50s and frankly if someone gave me a paid year off my job to do community service I would fucking love it

We would be far better off spending the money this would cost on bringing in high quality vocational education. Our one size fits very few system is a huge part of the reason why so many young people leave school unskilled, untrained and unmotivated. It's so narrowly focused on academics to the exclusion of all else that it doesn't serve far too many people and wastes the talents of our young potential skilled tradespeople. We should look at countries where vocational education is properly valued and learn from them rather than looking backwards.

Then could we make it part of the curriculum? You can’t opt out? Perhaps it will give the kids who wouldn’t have access to these opportunities the chance to see something new. Of course, it would then need some sort of mentoring team to look at opportunities outside of the ( mandatory) school club.
Unfortunately, I don’t think there is a simple or cheap option.

What's your excuse?

Yabu

for having an opinion you disagree with?

You clearly want a fight, I leave you to it, that's not why I am here. My opinion is just as valid as yours though 😉

Not really. It suits some people but seriously would not others.

And those countries that have conscriptions have many young people who seek to leave their country because of it. It doesn’t necessarily ‘work well’ elsewhere. Although the presentation from the country will say it is all marvellous.

It would be very expensive to organise.

I can only understand it if the country was in a situation of War and needed everyone to sign up. Men and Women.

I don't want a fight, but then I also don't talk about 'special little darlings with anxiety' being 'mollycoddle (sic) by their 'anxious parents'.

I agree, let's leave it. I totally respect your right to have an opinion though, even when I don't respect the opinion itself.

in fairness, my post was not random but a reply to a very specific post ending with "shame on you".

so if someone want to attack posters, they have to accept said posters will answer back. Just to put things back in context!

Sounds like we were both up for a bit of sparring then. All is fair in love and mumsnet though, so all good here. I hope you have a good rest of your evening.

National Service in this country was discontinued in the UK in the early 1960s or late 50s I think, and was principally for boys who were not going to college, university or apprenticeships.These days, with almost everyone doing some sort of third level education or training it’s really not seen as necessary.

And of course if it was reinstated it would have to be for girls too. So huge numbers of 18 year olds would need to be shoehorned into the armed forces or similar services. Sounds difficult, chaotic and expensive to me. And probably pointless too unless it’s directed solely at ‘neets’ as a way to stop them claiming benefits. (Which some people might approve of. Not me.)
Neets — young people Not in Employment, Education or Training.

My proposal is a) everyone does it at 17 for 9 months, with carve-outs for ill health / Northern Ireland / lone parents or whatever. You can choose from 5 broad areas > national defence, learn a trade, social care, culture, or environment. You get NMW and can bank university credits. Efforts are made to ensure the programme is not undermining local employment. You can spend your time learning to thatch or as a library assistant or planting trees in the National Forest if that is your thing. There[s also a national Time Bank where you get a month off for every 5 years you work to contribute to community projects, so adults can join in as well, either as mentors or as volunteers.

If you're going to make everyone do it for 9 months at 17, you might as well start at 16, make it a year and just defer A level entry for a year. Because otherwise you are going to cause a massive logistical problem with the start of university terms and people not having completed their full 2 year A level course.

Your range of choices is interesting; however, it's going to cost a fortune to provide all of that for those who want a particular direction.

Mine did NCS National Citizen Service at 16 but it’s since been disbanded. It was a week away on an activity holiday and a week doing community service stuff based at a local college. They did a presentation at school and she signed up, it was really cheap. But as it was opt in it was mainly yp who already did lots of extra curricular and volunteering who signed up.

Why wouldn't it be universal? Obviously there has to be exemptions for medical reasons but there's no need for exemptions for any other reason e.g who their parents are or how rich they are. Even the son of the president of EU parliament is doing his national service right now.

Isn't it funny how people who think national service is a good idea aren't ones that would actually have to do it.

My DH did it and he thinks it's a great idea

Funny how people in countries that do it are generally saying yeah, actually it's not an awful idea

If ADHD, autism, anxiety etc were included in the exemptions for medical reasons or if you were exempt as you claim PIP etc is what I was referring to.