To think compulsory national service for young people could be helpful for many?

[Jane379]

The recent thread on benefits generational cycle got me thinking...could compulsory national service period help some young people, including ones like these?

Or would it make things worse?

Well somewhere around 40% of the population might not actually want to join the British Army...

why do you think?

This would be very good. My country has vocational schools that teach things like this, with work experience placements in firms a part of the course, for instance I studied aircraft maintenance at one of these schools and got a job from my work experience placement. These schools are very popular and about half of 16 year olds pick them over academic high schools (and very many adults go to them to retrain in new careers, as I did)

Aren't ex-service people a massively disproportionate portion of the number of homeless?
Maybe all the military training doesn't actually prepare people for life in the "real world"?

I didn't say we wouldn't, although you're going to need to be a lot more specific about what you mean by 'extreme' and what you envisage them doing before we can work out who's ableist. Obviously the potential exists for a system that's appalling for people who fall just below any medical exemption threshold.

It being a huge improvement is also a claim that needs to be proven. Maybe there is a theoretical case that an inequitable system only applying to the people without better options could still be beneficial overall, nobody's made it. Realistically that case needs to be made on it own merits, rather than advanced because someone's just realised that they can't make a realistic argument for absolutely everyone having to do it.

Those doing the civilian service option in my country can work in schools and nurseries (can't be childminders as that requires qualitifications), one of my DD's substitute teachers last year was doing his service working in her school.

I am still waiting for an argument why everyone "shouldn't have" to do it.

It should be male and female, that's the only thing I would change with most of the current set-ups. It's not an alien concept, it exist in so many countries, it's not difficult to start the process. It's a positive

No one is saying it should become mandatory from the 01st June 2026.

I know it's totally unrealistic to pretend people wouldn't play the "sensitive/ adhd/ anxiety/ allergic to effort/ work-refuser card to refuse to do anything, but one can dream.

I am also aware the army is not a babysitting club and it would be unfair on their staff to have to teach kids things their parents never bother doing, but one can hope compulsory service would become a thing sooner rather than later.

Shouldn't have to or won't? I just ask because a theoretical case for everyone doing it is easier to make than an even slightly realistic one.

Like for example one could say Northern Ireland will just have to go along with it, but obviously once you know anything about the place it becomes obvious that's not going to happen. Or we could pretend sole carers would be fine because we'll find the resources to give the people they're looking after live in carers instead, but clearly that is pie in the sky.

Ironically, I think my ADHD child would rather like the army. Whether or not they'd like him is a different question!

Young people could if they wished just walk into the recruiting office and sign on for King and Country, to the right person it can be a decent career with plenty of transferable skills to use later. There is a lot of truth that a volunteer is much better than a pressed man, unless you just want canon fodder.

Their children must also attend state school for at least 6 months.

Fuck me. 42% of people on a parenting site apparently don't think the future is quite bad enough for young people yet and want to bring back national service - something that almost none of them would have had to do themselves.

As if it's going to do literally anything for their future prospects of getting a job or owning a home. It will just keep them in limbo for a little bit longer while giving them a bit more time to ponder just how fucked over they have been by older generations.

Shame on you all.

I think that for ASD kids with severe anxiety an apprenticeship would be much better. Kids who are too anxious to go to school are not suddenly going to leap out of their shell for national service, but having a sheltered work position with a kind adult to keep them safe could do the world of good for them.

or maybe some of us raised our children well enough to think that they would be absolutely fine with a universal mandatory national service

as they would be if they had just been born in a different country.

It would make their life a lot easier as well, instead of facing a future having to manage teams of special little darlings with anxiety and feelings who have been so mollycoddle by their anxious parents they are completely unprepared for the real world.

Rather than waiting until the age of 18 and then offering ( or insisting) on national service, why don’t we give our young teenagers the tools and opportunities to learn discipline, team building, problem solving, etc, at an earlier age? Don’t wait until they are adults.

Scouts, Army cadet force, Duke of Edinburgh schemes, etc are fantastic for building confidence and teamwork. Middle class kids, who have been pushed into these activities, have grown and gained advantages from joining these sorts of clubs. Kids who have come from poorer and/or disadvantaged families often haven’t had that option.

We need to help these kids/ families early on. Not wait until they are adults.
… and yes, I am aware that you need volunteers to run these clubs. Perhaps the government should set up something similar and pay for staff.

The ones who have a diagnosis are genuine.

Having raised your kids to be daft enough to accept that the piss on their legs is rain isn't something to be proud of. Neither is them credulously thinking somethings universal when it isn't/wouldn't be.

I don’t think it’s a good idea.

I agree with those saying, isn’t it funny that it’s those now too old for it who propose it. No one proposes it for themselves (or so rarely that I’ve never heard them).

I think there should perhaps be a scheme that kids can join if they can’t find a job or further educational prospects that’s encouraged and attractive - that can include either military or non-military service. But I don’t know that we should force all young people or even force those who aren’t otherwise occupied to join it rather than get benefits - it does feel like a sort of punishment for kids from poorer backgrounds, as you can bet the better off would never end up having to do it.

As I say, maybe having a scheme that seems attractive is the answer as then better off kids
might join.

Most young people do not need this intervention, and with the cost of housing and living these days could really do without an additional delay to becoming economically active and independent. It would cost the country an absolute fortune for very little tangible benefit as you'd need to either pay everyone on national service a wage, or pay them a stipend and house & feed them for the duration. You'd also have to pay a small army of trained staff to provide them with training and oversee their 'service'. There would also need to be an (expensive) bureaucracy to track everyone, manage the deferrals & exemptions, and bring legal proceedings against those who attempt to dodge it.

Agree with this too!

Yep.

Of course it wouldn't actually be universal and the ones some people on this thread would like to see take it up the most would likely be the exact ones who would be more likely to be exempt.

Definitely agree. Let's properly fund things that people might actually want to do, sensibly invest in opportunities, and that has the bonus of meaning we don't need to piss away any resources on enforcement too.

This is very true but I think alot could be done to make it more attractive.

And have non military options that you can similarly sign on for.

Thanks! They were unbeatable.