To think compulsory national service for young people could be helpful for many?

[Jane379]

The recent thread on benefits generational cycle got me thinking...could compulsory national service period help some young people, including ones like these?

Or would it make things worse?

Also the fact that Israel exempt chunks of the population from it because they know they wouldn't have it.

And that in a society that gets attacked by neighbours on a pretty regular basis and occasionally invaded so the need for it is much more obvious.

We need some insurance for safety though: how to know what can be safely repealed?

If you mean the Haredi Jews, there is increasing movement to get them doing it too, and some are agreeing to. It's not simply a case of them refusing : the Haredi men get off currently as they have a theological reason and the Israeli government relies on Haredi parties for their coalition

The negativity on this thread is why nothing happens to improve the lot of young people - too hard

Have I done it? I'm older Gen Z : no. I would be happy to, though.

I'm older Gen Z, would be happy to do it.

It's a crap idea OP.

Of the states that require national service, and shitloads don't, they've mostly got at least one of a more repressive state than we do, neighbour/s who like to attack regularly and a more attractive social contract with greater opportunities for younger people. Unlike us.

I would be happy to do it, as said above.

There is convincing evidence that we need to defend more against Russia than we have been currently doing: Agree we are not Israel or Finland though.

I do indeed, and they are very much not doing it. The numbers of men agreeing are tiny, and no women do which is significant in a society where both sexes serve. They're not an example of a society where what you're proposing would work, because they're a group who get out of it because trying to draft them is a great deal more trouble than it's worth.

I think this is a good idea. I agree that compulsory service in the army would not be ideal, but it should be an option, as you say.

I think arguments like this would carry a lot more weight if society hadn’t steadily broken the social contract with younger generations over the last couple of decades.

You can’t really lecture young people about “discipline”, “service” and “contributing to society” while simultaneously expecting them to navigate sky-high house prices, huge university debts, insecure renting, stagnant wages and generally fewer opportunities than their parents had.

Previous generations at least had a sense that if you worked hard there was a realistic route to stability, home ownership and a decent standard of living. That bargain increasingly doesn’t exist, so it’s hardly surprising some younger people feel disconnected from the system. Before talking about compulsory national service, maybe we should first ask why so many feel they have far less stake in society than earlier generations did.

There's zero convincing evidence that compulsory national service is the way we're going to do that.

Very well said.

My young adult sons are working hard in their first jobs. They have studied, had part time jobs and are now working full time. They do not need this to become a responsible citizen.

I see what you mean.

Re Haredi women, some definitely do contribute to the service in non military ways but agree this is not the same thing.

https://www.ynetnews.com/magazine/article/bynmrtuwkx

How exactly do you think this would solve the problem of inter-generational benefit recipients? Do you think people will suddenly be lifted out of poverty and have the will to work? I just don’t understand how you think this will work other than pissing off the majority of kids who do ok at school and have plans for the future that don’t involve playing soldiers or enforced community service.

True, but this is even more likely with students who don't do well at school. Not always, but a lot of the kids who do well have supportive parents who teach them this at home, so they'd still say why should they have to do this? If it was voluntary, but included the chance to live in a place they could learn budgeting, cleaning, cooking etc, that would be good.

It isn't even close to being the same thing no, and that's one of the reasons this is such a divisive issue in Israeli society. There are whole sectors whose 18 year old young women go into the IDF. Haredim are an extremely stark contrast.

Those countries have per-capita worker fatality rates three times higher than the UK (source) You may think that's an acceptable price to pay but I'm grateful that I live in a country where worker safety is not ignored.

Yep. Fix that first.

There are so many countries that have active conscription, including Sweden, Greece, Denmark, Norway, Cyprus, Singapore, Finland and South Korea. I’d say they’re all pretty respectable countries.

I think national service should be applicable to everyone, not just teens. There are many different branches and avenues that can be explored, not just combat.

Compulsory, no.

But I think it’s a fantastic voluntary option. That said, it is not an inexpensive programme to fund.

I grew up in a country where voluntary national service is a thing. Most people don’t do it. But I took a year out during uni and did. It paid relatively well for a uni student and I got a bursary at the end that paid for my final uni term. I’m really glad I did it. I worked for a charity in an area related to my degree. It was great work experience and a good time out for me.

It wasn’t forced though and it was well organised with proper training and support.

Other countries don’t have the high numbers of non working adults that U.K. has - this will skew the numbers -we have almost no manufacturing or house building which can be considered more dangerous work which other countries will have which will also skew the numbers

Are you not doing anything worthwhile at the moment?

If not then I’m sure posters can come up with some suggestions.

DD is also older Gen Z and would not be happy to do a years national service - how would she pay her mortgage, and would her job still be waiting for her after? I imagine many adults feel that way.

There was compulsory national service in the past. I didn't recall that it helped with social mobility in any way