To think compulsory national service for young people could be helpful for many?

[Jane379]

The recent thread on benefits generational cycle got me thinking...could compulsory national service period help some young people, including ones like these?

Or would it make things worse?

Course.

You probably know that the population in NI contains a large group of people who self-identify only as Irish and don't accept that it should be part of the UK. The concept of compulsory national service to the British state would itself be inflammatory- it did not go down well when the Tories proposed it in 2024, social media was aflame! The times in the past when we've had national service, it was never enforced in NI the government was afraid of teaching a load of military aged Catholic men how to fight.

So there would either need to be a formal exemption for NI or the system just not be enforced there. Which creates an avenue for people who don't want to do it to move there, or at least pretend to.

It does also raise the question of what you do with non British citizens residing legally in the UK, which is a lot of people not just in NI. I'm not sure the citizens having to do compulsory national service whilst say those with settled status or limited leave to remain being exempt is necessarily going to go down too well.

Nothing stopping you from volunteering today.

This comes up a lot but why should the little brats become the Army's problem?

It does also raise the question of what you do with non British citizens residing legally in the UK, which is a lot of people not just in NI. I'm not sure the citizens having to do compulsory national service whilst say those with settled status or limited leave to remain being exempt is necessarily going to go down too well.

Citizenship has responsibilities as well as rights, everyone ought to understand that. Non-citizens don't have to do national service in my country and that's not an issue, but if they want citizenship then they have to do it (if male under 30).

Post 18 is fine, I don’t see what needs altering here at all. Plenty of opportunities to get into uni, more people than ever are going now and also lots of apprenticeships out there for those who don’t want to go to uni.

Agree on the curriculum and welcomed Becky Francis’s review. I hope the government take heed, particularly around arts and humanities subjects but also getting girls into computer science.

And much higher taxes. And in Denmark it isn't everyone, there's a lottery system. The Finnish system pays for everything, including benefits for families so is expensive. You can't have this on the cheap.

And if you want people off benefits, do something about low wages and high housing costs first.

I don’t think making it compulsory would fly nowadays. Not because Gen Z’s are little delicate snowflakes, I teach them and disagree with this wholeheartedly, BUT I think their parents often weirdly are. Most of them are Gen X, some older millennials and they can be so full on. It’s the ones who turn up to open days asking us 5000000 inane questions while their child looks completely mortified. So I reckon the parents would have a thing to say about little Harry being forced into the army somehow. Harry probably wouldn’t mind but his mum would.

Ok. In the case of NI we have one of the constitent countries of the UK where the acceptance that people who live there don't have to be British citizens and need to be treated equally nonetheless is vitally important. So we need some provision for that, and the specific situation of the UK as compared to Finland means this is liable to be much more of an issue.

Though as someone who doesn't live in NI, the idea that compulsory national service is one of the responsibilities of British citizenship is one that, shall we say, needs some work.

Agree and I think we should increase taxes here to have a better standard of living. They’re healthier, wealthier, better educated and happier despite paying more in taxes. Says it all.

I was coming on to post this. Other countries seem to manage it and funnily enough they also have bright kids going to uni. The country/society adapts.

I agree , in my school kids who weren't academic had the opportunity to go to the school house ! They did practical things like cooking , dealing with finances and don't dare say but also how to keep a house clean . This was the 1960s and an all girls school . It was very popular . It would be called sexist now 🙄 .

It's because they've pretty much all got at least one of a more authoritarian state than we do, neighbours who like attacking regularly enough to make the population see the benefit in widespread military training or a better social contract than we have. And even states with one or more of those often have a problem enforcing it.

And so the sins of the fathers (and mothers) should be visited on the children?

I don’t think old style National Service is the answer, but this kind of lazy, blinkered thinking is part of the problem we face as a society.

Perhaps some kind of compulsory community and life skills thing should be introduced for anyone not in FT education or employment post-18.

I did a research study on compulsory military service in other countries (admittedly a long time ago) so I have a few insights to share.

Short story - yes, military service could be a fantastic mechanism for upskilling young people and addressing social inequities, whilst of course contributing to our preparedness for war and national disasters. It would benefit disadvantaged young people by giving them structure and opportunities, but it would also benefit young people who are already high achieving by rounding out their leadership skills. And it could address some of the very serious issues with Gen Z not being able to afford their life goals if it was linked to reduced university fees and preferential rates on mortgages etc, as it is in some countries.

A few caveats -

• It needs to be for every young person, regardless of sex, race, creed, disability etc. Otherwise you end up widening the gaps between those who do it and those who don’t.
• It needs to be focused on roles/activities that actually give young people work relevant skills. The best forms of service last 12, 24 maybe even 36 months and young people come out as flight engineers, computer programmers etc. This cadre of young people can then drive innovation in specialist industries - these days probably AI. Just having young people standing guard in town centres does nothing for them or for society.

People aren't disciplined today to do it. They wouldn't last.

It’s a no from me.

We have an epidemic of violent men in this country. And you want to train them to use arms? No thank you!

We can talk about compulsory national service for young people when there's a compulsory "national service" for parliamentarians: they must have worked for at least six months in a minimum wage, customer-facing job, so they have spent some time in the same world that many other people live in, instead of the bubble of wealth which so many of them come from, never having known the world outside private school and Oxbridge.

The NI situation is very complicated which is why I only replied to the bit about non-citizens in a general way, I could not even hazard an answer on how to make national service work in NI, making it exempt is probably the best way (similar to how people living on the Åland islands are exempt from Finnish national service)

Ooo that’s a good one!

Does it have to be military service? Could it not be community service of some kind?

I can't wear the boots, because I've got "bone spurs" so that rules me out.

I'm in favour of compulsory national service but not compulsory military service. I think every young person (who physically can) should do a couple of years in a public service role that includes unsocial hours (preferably nights) to contribute to society and act as a leveller.

It could be a large number of roles including NHS (HCAs, ambulance care assitants, porters, cleaners) which would set young people up equally for med school or a career as a carer, education (TAs) a great starting point for teachers, Military, plus registered apprentice schemes within the private sector (Vetinary nurses, social carers, construction etc).

And therein lies the rub!

Most of the insane rude people are older and have obviously never been on the other side of the bar. In the ten years I worked in hospitality it was almost aways older people, youngers cause trouble normally because they can’t handle their alcohol but rarely rude or aggressive to staff.

Anyway anyone who fails the mandatory hospitality national service will be sent to the front lines under my perfect system.

They also have national service because they don't have the same level of paid, permanent armed forces that we do. Part of the reason we dropped it in the 60s was because we didn't need the extra manpower, partly because have the nuclear deterrent which none of those listed countries have. For those countries, it's an integral part of their military defence strategy.