Have you ever met a child psychopath?

[TheJuryIsOut]

There's some debate about whether psychopaths are born like that or made as a consequence of their environment/upbringing. If they are born that way (which I believe they are) have you ever met one? What were the signs?

I say this because there is a child in my wider family who I think may be a psychopath, there has been signs from when he was very very young and as he moves through his teenage years things have only got worse. I can't get on board with it being an environment thing as no one else in the family behaves the way he does, it's quite terrifying to think that no matter what you do your child could still go on to do horrific things and not feel a jot of guilt.

What do you think? Are they born or made?

I've known a few children that have displayed psychopathic behaviours and I must say that at least one of the parents are psychologically unhinged! I think nurture has a lot to do with the influence of right and wrong, whether lying is ok in certain circumstances such as protecting a family member or stealing etc
Once boundaries are allowed to be crossed I think this has a huge influence on a young brain.

What have they done that makes you think they are?

I know one of these! Evil little prick!

The timing of this thread is quite spooky.
Just released on films on Netflix is a documentary called The Crash. It's trending at no1.
If you want to see a real 17year old female psychopath and their behaviour then i hiighly suggest you watch it.

I also just want to add that I have also had experience of a child that grew up in a relatively normal family household with kind siblings and what appeared to be lovely parents, who just turned out to be a 'wrong-un'! I suppose you could argue that you don't know exactly what goes on behind closed doors etc but its a wonder how one can just go awry

You seem the think babies are more passive then they are. They will actively influence the world around them at times - any human development class will show this. As for the word - if you think manipulate is a word with negative connotations, than I guess you would see it as messed up. But words can have more than one meaning and in the context I used it, simply means trying to influence.

I doubt it's a real psychopath it's someone playing the part of what someone thinks a psychopath is like.

Its a real life story. Not played by actors

Not your favourite then?

@catipuss it shows her interviewed in prison snd the real time court case

So they filmed this person rather than helping them? What did they do on camera that was psychopathic torture someone, murder someone?

Yes, I have. At school. They behaved with recklessness, did things to hurt or risk hurting other children, didn’t care for consequences or authority, ignored not only school rules, but those of normal child discourse- how children relate to each other etc. At primary, through secondary, we all knew they were a wrong un- not that we knew what that feeling was or meant at that age. When an adult, that person went onto premeditate and violently, horrifically murder a person who had argued with them. Was from a family which had supportive social services interventions, but whatever was done didn’t seem to work for them. Their sibling was perfectly ordinary, lovely mother and Dad. This one was born a psychopath and I don’t think anything would have changed that. They were born wrong. I don’t know if this had been recognised early on, learnt strategies might have worked to avert their harm to others? I’d like to think maybe, but I doubt it.

It’s true you cannot be diagnosed until an adult but that doesn’t mean there aren’t child psychopaths out there . You don’t just suddenly become a psychopath at 18

It is trying to get its needs met. Would you describe an adult trying to get its needs met as manipulative? Or one simply operating in a social construct? The word has a negative connotation as you will know. Nobody has ever received a compliment about how manipulative they are. Why would you not choose another word, especially if you don't mean manipulative in the sense the word is actually being used as?

It is messed up to describe babies like that.

She drove her car straight into a sall killing both her boyfriend and his best friend. She said if he left her she would kill him and she did just thst.
She survived, was out partying 6 weeks later making tik tock. Expelled from school, teachers had concerns since she was 11.Parents rich snd in total denial. They kept making excuses.

@catipuss she got 2 life sentances in 2025.

@catipuss she was a known bully in school. Everyone was terrified of her. Sober viewing. Especially when you see her reaction when getting sentanced.

I never said it wasn't true that neglect and abuse can cause damage as adults though. But if it was "fact" then all abused and neglected Cheltenham would turn out to be psychopaths, murderers etc. And obviously they don't do they . It's a strong predisposing factor to Borderline Personality Disorder though, especially in the first 3 years of life

On empathy, I think people get confused with this.

First of all lack of empathy does not always mean somebody gains pleasure from cruelty (sadism). Those are two different things.

But also I expect that people have differing abilities to compartmentalise empathy. For example as some people have pointed out, most adults do not feel guilty if they put down ant powder or rat poison or squash a spider. Some people do but not everyone will. And even though I do feel guilty if I kill a spider, I do eat meat, and I don't feel guilty or empathetic when I am cutting up a chicken breast. However I think I would struggle to kill an animal in order to eat it. Is that because I am empathetic or is it because it's removed from my everyday experience? If I had grown up on a farm in the 1920s and then raised my children during WW2 rationing I would maybe feel differently. I would do these things out of necessity and quite possibly get used to it.

Some children develop empathy on different timescales - one of my children is ND, and when he was about 5 I remember DH being deeply concerned by what he saw as a deep and worrying lack of empathy in situations where for example his younger brother would get hurt and his reaction would be to laugh loudly or run away or start being very silly and OTT as though he wanted attention, or sometimes start crying himself. DH felt that DS2 was showing a lack of empathy in these cases because his expectation was that at age 5, a child should show concern and want to help the hurt child. In fact I think that DS2 was showing empathy in the sense of he could understand DS3 was hurt and it bothered/upset him, but he didn't automatically make that jump to what he could do to help, which I think was because he found that experience of DS3 being hurt too overwhelming to do anything except react to it instinctively - by seeking reassurance, displaying anxious laughter, or trying to get away. When he got older he did spontaneously start to show the more "NT" expected empathy behaviours.

And I think curiosity can sometimes look like a lack of empathy, there is a HUGE difference between a child being curious to find out how far they can pull a spider's leg before it comes off but not understanding that it hurts/injures the spider, and a child throwing stones at a dog because they like to see the dog in pain.

Yes I would describe an adult like that as manipulating the situation - because that is what they are doing. What I would not do, which you are insisting upon, is using the word manipulate in a narrow and judgmental way. Do you think critics only say negative things or can you understand that criticism in its original simply means to analyze and comment on?

My younger half sister would stand back and enjoy watching me get a beating when she had lied and she could cry on demand to make out I had upset her. She used to set fire to insects and had a fascination with fire almost setting the house on fire once. She ran off with our older sisters husband. She has had multiple affairs and attempted to seduce my husband, who was petrified and showed me the messages, she stole money from our aged blind Mother. Once Mother died we all cut her off. She was sacked for stealing from a job but swore she hadn’t. She is a very physically attractive woman and incredibly charming and clever. She was awful from being even a toddler, it’s hard to really put in to words just how dreadful she was from a very tender age. She is as close to a psychopath as anyone I have ever known.

Fiction book recommendation on the nature/nurture debate:
“The Bad Seed” by William March, which was also made into a film (recommend the original black & white version).
The book was written in the 50’s I think & is quite gripping & thought provoking.
I watched the film as a child & it was pure horror.

If a child is born with psychopathic traits, they are neurologically wired that way, and their upbringing is such that the nurture they receive is not sufficient to ensure they learn to override their psychopathic tendencies, then is it the case that they cannot be blamed for their actions?
The same way that a child with autism isn’t ‘naughty’ when they vocalise in a way that’s considered inappropriate or a child with dyslexia isn’t lazy/stupid because they struggle to read. If their brain is structured in a way that means they do not feel compassion, empathy, guilt etc then can we ‘blame’ psychopaths for their actions?

You can believe that if it makes you feel happier.

I watched the documentary Psychopath with Piers Morgan a few years ago. It’s about someone named Paris Bennett who stabbed his 4yr old sister to death when he was 13, just to upset his mum. He was diagnosed with Psychopathy when he was 15. His mum continues to have contact with him, she visits him and talks to him on the phone. He’s up for parole this year I believe, I’m certain his mum will do her utmost to fight it and keep him inside, she knows full well that he is, and will continue to be, a danger to society if he’s released. She still loves him but she does not want him free. It’s an interesting watch, if you can find it!