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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Have you ever met a child psychopath?

518 replies

TheJuryIsOut · 17/05/2026 16:23

There's some debate about whether psychopaths are born like that or made as a consequence of their environment/upbringing. If they are born that way (which I believe they are) have you ever met one? What were the signs?

I say this because there is a child in my wider family who I think may be a psychopath, there has been signs from when he was very very young and as he moves through his teenage years things have only got worse. I can't get on board with it being an environment thing as no one else in the family behaves the way he does, it's quite terrifying to think that no matter what you do your child could still go on to do horrific things and not feel a jot of guilt.

What do you think? Are they born or made?

OP posts:
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SignGrudgeBluebook · 17/05/2026 19:59

Stompythedinosaur · 17/05/2026 16:25

No one has ever met a child psychopath, because being under 18 is an exclusion criteria for the assessment of psychopathy.

Children's brains are not fully developed. They cannot be psychopaths.

I totally disagree with this.

It is recognised that children can be born with these tendencies and having witnessed my niece growing up, she was born with something missing, was a psychopathic child, a psychopathic adult and is now dead as a result of her skewed decision making/psychopathy.

She was a nightmare to be around at any age.

FlyingApple · 17/05/2026 20:00

Imdunfer · 17/05/2026 19:57

That may well be the case but they are not all born with the same ability to remain innocent.

Well yes, that's what I said. We are in agreement. They have the gene and it gets expressed because of the environment.

Imdunfer · 17/05/2026 20:02

HorsesForMorses · 17/05/2026 19:53

Anyway, I knew a girl who has remained awful as an adult. Charming, personable, superficially polite - but turns on a sixpence to vengeful rage. Cruel, no empathy, no remorse. Has ruined lives with fake allegations and evil lies. She's a psychiatric nurse now, FFS.

There's a name for that which escapes me at the moment. People are drawn to work in areas that will be triggering for them. It's not uncommon, for example, for people with eating disorders to have jobs related to food.

SignGrudgeBluebook · 17/05/2026 20:05

TheJuryIsOut · 17/05/2026 16:39

So again, do you think a switch flicks on their 18th birthday and they're suddenly a psychopath?

Definitely not. They display psychopathic/sociopathic tendencies well before the age of 18.

My niece was diagnosable early on had my sister and BIL actually got her the help she needed. She was pathologically oppositional from a really early age, very cruel to animals and other people and impossible to be around.

Imdunfer · 17/05/2026 20:06

FlyingApple · 17/05/2026 20:00

Well yes, that's what I said. We are in agreement. They have the gene and it gets expressed because of the environment.

I don't think you mean it as I do.

Babies from day one are programmed to manipulate adults around them to look after them.

For an easily triggered psychopathic child, they could have triggered those traits before they can even speak.

It may be that good parenting can still turn it back at that stage, it may not.

What I do think is that if we refuse to accept that children can be psychopathic then we're not going to get the research to find out.

WickedWitchOfTheEast87 · 17/05/2026 20:08

TheGreatDownandOut · 17/05/2026 16:48

I believe they are born rather than become that way through their environment. I’ve read a few books on this topic as I find it fascinating! My understanding is that their environment can shape the way that psychopathy presents itself. So some will go on to be violent criminals, some will become CEOs and politicians 🙃

You are correct. I studied psychology and you can't diagnose them under 18 due to their brain still developing and not fully mature.

However the traits can and do show in childhood. It totally depends on their upbringing and environment. Not all psychopaths kill or are violent criminals they're just well known because of the heinous crimes they commit.

Not all of them torture animals. Dennis Nilsen was facing about 7 murder charges and his only concern was his dog. Myra Hindley showed no emotion during her police interviews until they told her that her dog didn't recover from the general anaesthetic and died she screamed "murdering bastards" at the police when she had murdered 5 children. Some psychopaths don't have any social skills like Ian Brady and people think of them as weird or creepy but Tedy Bundy had excellent social skills that he used to his advantage.

FlyingApple · 17/05/2026 20:08

Imdunfer · 17/05/2026 20:06

I don't think you mean it as I do.

Babies from day one are programmed to manipulate adults around them to look after them.

For an easily triggered psychopathic child, they could have triggered those traits before they can even speak.

It may be that good parenting can still turn it back at that stage, it may not.

What I do think is that if we refuse to accept that children can be psychopathic then we're not going to get the research to find out.

You're right, we don't agree at all.

sashh · 17/05/2026 20:12

Stompythedinosaur · 17/05/2026 17:19

The way a brain is wired is almost entirely developed post-birth though. Neuron connections only start being developed in the last few weeks of pregnancy, and are mainly developed in the first 5 years of life in response to the baby's care and environment. The development of empathy is absolutely part of this.

People think of children being born with a fully finished brain, that's predefined, but that simply isn't in line with our current understanding of brain development.

So would it be possible that we are all born as psychopaths?

A newborn doesn't have empathy, they just want feeding, changing and sleep, at least at the start.

Samysungy · 17/05/2026 20:17

PumpkinPieAlibi · 17/05/2026 19:11

Where does the 50% figure come from? From everything I've read, anywhere between 1-5% of the general population meets the criteria for psychopathy...no where near 50%.

If you include sociopathy the population percentage is higher, but even combined, it doesn't come close to 50%.

It is from large studies who are given the psychometric questionnaire (as there are no tests for this just asking random questions) and when conducted on large scales and analysed on likert scales they come back with over 50% who meet the criteria.

Now that could be that the tests are bullshit which is my opinion as it is not a test but an opinion.

It could also be that ppl are free to answer as they want and can give any response to these which again ppl can lie or exaggerate etc.

Or it could be that the test is too broad?

Either way saying 1 in 2 have this is BS. Which then makes you question the validity of the test and if it makes sense at all or if it really exists if so many could be diagnosed.

Would be great if they could prove it exists for a start.

BertieBotts · 17/05/2026 20:17

Newrumpus · 17/05/2026 17:54

For those who work in this field: Is conduct disorder the childhood equivalent of a diagnosis of psychopathy? I don’t mean that it would transfer to adulthood but as a diagnosis but is it psychopath markers in a child that cause the diagnosis of conduct disorder?

I don't work in the field but I have read enough to understand - yes and no. At least if I understood your question correctly, I think you're in the right ball park but not necessarily the right direction.

Conduct Disorder is essentially the medical/modern name for what used to be referred to as delinquency - a consistent pattern of antisocial behaviour, combined with a lack of empathy or remorse about said behaviour. As others have said, children/teens with Conduct Disorder don't respond to punishment but may respond to reward, and this can be used to modify behaviour.

Conduct disorder is not usually a diagnosis given until adolescence. Before this, similar behaviour patterns are identified as Oppositional Defiance Disorder (ODD). This is defined as a persistent and almost automatic rejection of any kind of authority. Essentially the medical name for a "You're not the boss of me!" kind of attitude. Note with ODD, there is nothing mentioned about empathy.

ODD is extremely common, especially among neurodivergent children, and not all children with ODD go on to develop CD.

Likewise CD can be a phase that some adolescents go through and grow out of. Some adolescents with CD will go on to be identified as being psychopaths as adults, but not all. So it is not exactly true to say that CD = Psychopathy. CD if it continues into adulthood does merge into Antisocial Personality Disorder or ASPD, but not all individuals with ASPD are psychopaths (Wikipedia says around a third are).

ODD is known to be able to be caused when parental discipline is too harsh/reactive or a combination of too inconsistent/lax but then also too reactive (think a parent who ignores or gives into their child until they annoy them, and then wallops the child, rather than intervening calmly earlier, or a parent who flies into rages unpredictably). But it can also happen without this. It can be indicative of a stress response, for example when a ND child's needs are not recognised or met, or as an indicator of possible abuse or trauma. It has a lot of overlap with the autistic PDA profile and this can be mistaken for ODD. There are also a lot of aspects of ADHD around emotional regulation and impulse control which overlap with ODD, so children can meet criteria for ODD if they have difficulty controlling their temper.

There is less research into the causes of CD but there is the fairly classic path of a child who hasn't had a great start in life/school for whatever reason that might be - ACEs or other difficult life experiences, ND, lack of opportunity to develop appropriate behaviour etc and because of a punitive/critical response to this behaviour by adults the child/teenager becomes jaded and acclimatised to punishment so that it ceases to have any effect. And then this in itself might lead to either an entrenched belief that the world is out to get me and the only way to survive is to hit back, or if the young person isn't engaging in education then they are highly likely to fall back on crime, exploitation, addiction, homelessness etc.

But yes if somebody was inherently a sadistic psychopath specifically, then it would likely show up as the path ODD > CD > ASPD > psychopathy, if this is clinically noted.

But, as said, not all psychopaths are sadistic or gain pleasure from other people's pain. Some of them just lack empathy and weight their own gain as much higher than anything relating to others. The definition of psychopathy is a combination of grandiose narcissism + lack of empathy/remorse + lack of taking personal responsibility or long term planning. A lot of psychopaths are said to be very charming and if this is the case from childhood then it might be nothing is raised.

Perimenoanti · 17/05/2026 20:20

Imdunfer · 17/05/2026 20:06

I don't think you mean it as I do.

Babies from day one are programmed to manipulate adults around them to look after them.

For an easily triggered psychopathic child, they could have triggered those traits before they can even speak.

It may be that good parenting can still turn it back at that stage, it may not.

What I do think is that if we refuse to accept that children can be psychopathic then we're not going to get the research to find out.

Babies are not able to manipulate adults ffs.

BertieBotts · 17/05/2026 20:20

sashh · 17/05/2026 20:12

So would it be possible that we are all born as psychopaths?

A newborn doesn't have empathy, they just want feeding, changing and sleep, at least at the start.

This is an extreme example of why psychopathy can't be diagnosed until adulthood.

It's developmentally normal and a survival instinct for newborns not to have empathy and to only care about their own needs. In fact the three traits associated with psychopathy (self-importance, lack of empathy, lack of responsibility) is developmentally normal for much of early childhood.

Even teenagers arguably have more of these traits than an average adult does. Teenagers are FAMOUSLY self-centred, short term thinkers.

Bridgertonisbest · 17/05/2026 20:23

StandingDeskDisco · 17/05/2026 17:01

So if a young child takes pleasure in killing animals, that is not down to their inborn personality (innate lack of empathy) but rather due to lack of 'moral guidance'?
I don't think so.

A lot of traumatised and damaged children can behave in truly dreadful ways, but being a psychopath is something else entirely.

Of course as others have said, a natural born psychopath who had a 'good' upbringing will usually do very well in life, as they make rational decisions about the best way to get what they want without going to prison.

My son has an innate lack of empathy. He is autistic and doesn’t even understand why you would care how someone else feels.

he’s never gone around killing small animals though or hurting other people. In fact his college tutors describe him as being “a really nice boy” and if he’s mean to you, you deserve it.

I believe, with few exceptions that psychopaths are made. Those two boys that killed Jamie burger came from very neglectful and abusive homes. Many people do come from homes like this and don’t murder but they don’t have functioning relationships either.

A friend works with a boy who has suffered extreme neglect and abuse. He’s already committed violent acts and those around him are fairly certain that he will almost certainly kill at some point. His mother just hopes it’s her! I guess her feeling is that at least the rest of the world will be safe from him 🤷‍♀️

Supporting2026 · 17/05/2026 20:24

In general I think a lot of people are confusing terrible kids with kids who grow up to be psychopaths - when there may not be that much overlap.

My toddlers are generally quite sweet / both to themselves and other kids / dogs etc - but that is 100 percent a learnt behaviour where they copy me not genuine empathy yet and it gets “rewarded” with adulation and attention for being “sweet”. I joke that if my 18 month old was left in the woods with the ducks for a couple of hours I’d probably come back to her covered in a bunch of feathers and blood - and both can be super violent to each other if I don’t step in - and yet both will stroke a dog super delicately as that’s what they’ve seen me do, and will be affectionate to each other (as they get huge praise every time they are). My eldest will literally change his voice to emulate mine when he’s being sweet to his younger her sister.

I assume if they grew up in a violent and destructive household they would be copying different behaviours.

EricTheHalfASleeve · 17/05/2026 20:24

Supporting2026 · 17/05/2026 19:41

The reason for the exclusion is that immature brains in kids mean they can often act like psychopaths until their brains mature. It’s not that the kid turns into a psychopath at 18 - it’s that he hasn’t grown out of being a psychopath before being 18. Now I’d argue plenty of kids show a reasonably degree of genuine (not just copied) empathy at a much much younger age and certainly if he is approaching 18 and still seems that unusual it’s a bit scary but then the actual age finishes developing is mid 20s.

The statement that the brain 'finishes developing' in our 20s is total nonsense. Cognitive functioning continually changes over the normal life course. Our reaction times peak in our early 20s then start to slowly decline. Learnt knowledge is well preserved in healthy older adults but problem solving is much slower compared to young adults. The Scottish Government in particular have latched onto the claim that the brain doesn't 'mature' till humans are 25 - there isn't much neuropsychological evidence to support that statement, and if it was true we should be restricting marriage, voting, drivers licensing, military service and so on for those under 25. If your executive functioning is good enough at 18 to get an HGV licence then it's good enough to know that violence, rape, theft and so on are wrong.

User765342 · 17/05/2026 20:25

Humankind is evil by nature. If all children were born pure and kind then there would be no wars and no crime but that's simply not the case. There has been wars since the beginning of civilisation, people enjoy killing others every single day and abuse is commonplace across all levels of society.

So yeah, children can definitely be born psychopathic, sociopathic, evil or however you want to describe it. There are only 10-14 years between being a child and a near full-grown adult. That's not a huge time span to fundamentally change or corrupt someone's mind & personality, on top of all the other learning and brain development that's taking place.

I definitely know a child who could be a psychopath. He's diagnosed ND but unlike other ND children, he has a disturbing blank look behind his eyes. Most ND kids are quirky, kind, funny or hyper and still give off an endearing aura. This child acts normal most of the time but I get genuinely creeped out when looking at his eyes because of the emptiness behind it. It's the look of someone who could suddenly lash out and do something unthinkable.

Isitevensummer · 17/05/2026 20:25

I worked with children in a secure hospital for about a decade (overseas, so slightly different system). A lot of kids who came in had done harm - lots of harm to animals and other children, and a few children who had killed other people. There was a massive spread of reasons and personalities but in general I would not say they were bad kids, and you could often see the reasons for their behaviour, either in them themselves (ND, in uterine drug ad alcohol exposure, etc etc) or their environment - some truly horrible families and abuse. But there was a small number I met over the years where they just seemed to be wired differently. I dont mean like ND kids, I mean who truly seemed to be fundamentally different from other people. They were rare, but I definitely met a handful who I was sure would go on to do significant harm in the future.

I think in better resourced or more functional families, or if the kids are brighter, these people become professionals, or run companies or find success in others ways.

YourTruthorMine · 17/05/2026 20:25

There's a lot of 'gate keeping' around this subject as this thread demonstrates. Quite chilling when you ask yourself why that might be

HowdoyoureallyKnow · 17/05/2026 20:27

I knew a child in our orbit as it where from toddler groups and some play dates up to primary and each time I saw him he was getting or trying to work out how to hurt other children. Eg being on a trike and ramming himself into toddlers sitting on the ground, kicking into a school head from standing on trampoline , throwing things ,grabbing a head and banging onto a door .
His dp were professionals and very mild mannered .he did concern me

Supporting2026 · 17/05/2026 20:29

hattie43 · 17/05/2026 19:18

If I ever had a kid who killed a pet I’d drown it in a bucket .

The only psychopath in that situation would be you, not the child. How can possibly say something like that.

BertieBotts · 17/05/2026 20:29

YourTruthorMine · 17/05/2026 20:25

There's a lot of 'gate keeping' around this subject as this thread demonstrates. Quite chilling when you ask yourself why that might be

Gatekeeping in what way?

Isitevensummer · 17/05/2026 20:29

Perimenoanti · 17/05/2026 20:20

Babies are not able to manipulate adults ffs.

A baby is manipulating their environment constantly. Not with conscious will or intention, so not as most of us would use that word, but with the innate need of every living thing to survive. Its the same thing your pets do when they do something you find cute - maximizing their chance of survival by ensuring you want to look after them.

Notasbigasithink · 17/05/2026 20:30

Stompythedinosaur · 17/05/2026 16:55

But this isn't a matter of opinion - psychopathy had a route of diagnosis which specifies it is not a legitimate diagnosis for a child. A child cannot meet criteria for a diagnosis of psychopathy.

I think the problem here is the wording and you are being quoted pedantic with your approach.
How about we all rephrase the OP to.....
Have you ever met a child that, in your opinion, had psychopathic traits when young, who then grew up to be diagnosed as such which ultimately confirmed your initial gut feelings from many years before?
Does that make you happy now?! 🙄🙄

Perimenoanti · 17/05/2026 20:33

Isitevensummer · 17/05/2026 20:29

A baby is manipulating their environment constantly. Not with conscious will or intention, so not as most of us would use that word, but with the innate need of every living thing to survive. Its the same thing your pets do when they do something you find cute - maximizing their chance of survival by ensuring you want to look after them.

No it is not. At best it is communicating its needs. Manipulation is a really messed up way to describe a babies behaviour.

maudelovesharold · 17/05/2026 20:35

PumpkinPieAlibi · 17/05/2026 19:14

This sounds like intrusive thoughts and OCD.

From the ADAA site - Harmful intrusive thoughts are a core symptom of a subtype of OCD often called Harm OCD. These terrifying thoughts contradict your values, do not reflect your desires, and are highly treatable.

Poor girl being labelled a psychopath

Poor girl being labelled a psychopath

Only by the poster who knew her, as far as we know. Hopefully she was eventually able to get help for her condition.