Have you ever met a child psychopath?

[TheJuryIsOut]

There's some debate about whether psychopaths are born like that or made as a consequence of their environment/upbringing. If they are born that way (which I believe they are) have you ever met one? What were the signs?

I say this because there is a child in my wider family who I think may be a psychopath, there has been signs from when he was very very young and as he moves through his teenage years things have only got worse. I can't get on board with it being an environment thing as no one else in the family behaves the way he does, it's quite terrifying to think that no matter what you do your child could still go on to do horrific things and not feel a jot of guilt.

What do you think? Are they born or made?

@Stompythedinosaur do you even know the details of the horrific Jamie Bulger case?

This is a fascinating book for anyone who is interested, the author was studying psychopathy and brain images and discovered he himself had the pattern!
It's not printing the image but it's by James Fallon and it's called The Psychopath Inside

But this isn't a matter of opinion - psychopathy had a route of diagnosis which specifies it is not a legitimate diagnosis for a child. A child cannot meet criteria for a diagnosis of psychopathy.

You would not have the affront to say that to the Mother of a child who was murdered by two psychopaths.

After twenty years working in youth justice and with exploited children - yes, I'm certain I understand the case.

No, I do not believe the child perpetrators were simply "born evil". No child I have worked with in twenty years has been. Their behaviour has always been understandable (though awful) in the context of the experiences they had themselves been subjected to.

It's easier for adults to just write an offender off as "bad". But that doesn't make it true.

people can do terrible things without being psychopaths.

I know, I'm not disagreeing with that. Where have I said it is a diagnosis for a child? Doesn't mean they aren't though. For the diagnosis of any personality disorder in adults the features have to have been present since childhood

That’s not what the poster said. It goes without saying that every psychopath didn’t turn psychopathic at midnight on their 18th, but will have displayed some traits in the lead up to that. Similarly, you don’t turn into a psychopath aged 49 after a life of not being one.

You asked has anyone known a child psychopath. Yes and no.

No, only because a child can’t be clinically diagnosed as one. Their personality is still forming and they aren’t mature so you can’t confidently assess a person going through a temporary development stage. Clinicians may well observe some telling traits e.g lack of empathy, or even hurting animals or people etc, but they won’t put a label on it.

Yes, because when an adult gets a diagnosis, then people can look back and say the signs were there as a child. Not a complete picture that warranted a diagnosis, but some traits which didn’t go away and were in fact added to.

Indeed they do. Doesn't mean the two perpetrators aren't though either

You think his killers behaviour was 'understandable'

The most insensitive, disgusting comment i have read on here. Just fucking wow.

Psychopathy is a personality disorder. It isn't fully understood, but can arise from neglect and abuse in the very early months and years when the brain fails to make the 'normal' connections because of the neglect/abuse. Very young children cannot process this as they don't have the ability to do this - no language, no world picture. People with this personality disorder lack empathy, are impulsive, don't learn from experience, they can be manipulative and deceitful, and can be prone to violent of criminal behaviour. However, they are unlikely to become Hannibal Lecter. They are also prone to suicide.

It's a very intractable condition and is really not fully understood. If a child shows the traits of psychopathy, intervention is possible to mitigate these tendences.

Yes when I lived in Russia as a kid. 8 year old boy on the neighbourhood put a slag of wood in a dogs collar to try and choke it, set fire to another kids tree house and then snuck into someone’s garage (which were used as pantry’s and put white spirit in their drinks!)

His sister was lovely and the family very pleasant.

Funnily enough I saw him as a suggested friend on Facebook recently and he’s a pilot!! Beggars belief.

I read an interview with James Fallon, apparently his relatives include 7 (7?!) murderers. So it definitely looks like it's largely genetic that can potentially be tamed with good parenting. Would not want my daughter marrying into his family though, just saying....

www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/the-neuroscientist-who-discovered-he-was-a-psychopath-180947814/

So if a young child takes pleasure in killing animals, that is not down to their inborn personality (innate lack of empathy) but rather due to lack of 'moral guidance'?
I don't think so.

A lot of traumatised and damaged children can behave in truly dreadful ways, but being a psychopath is something else entirely.

Of course as others have said, a natural born psychopath who had a 'good' upbringing will usually do very well in life, as they make rational decisions about the best way to get what they want without going to prison.

Some years back I worked with a child who I am certain will be on the news one day. Absolutely dead behind the eyes and parents who refused to accept that something was wrong. He was cruel and malicious. I have no idea where he is now but I hope there has been some sort of intervention.

I worked in forensic child psychiatry for many years and your view is overly simplistic. The majority of young people I worked with did have significant trauma histories but there were a handful that did not and no environmental factors could be identified that shaped their behaviours.

My grandma once told me of a kid (reception age) when she was a primary school teacher who mutilated a baby chicken (the ones where they incubate the eggs) and claimed it was because he didn’t like the colour yellow.

She didn’t say that

I think I knew one many years ago in a class I taught. Of the thousands of young people I have worked with over the years, he is the only one that I would consider in that way. He was cruel and underhand about his nastiness, and he had absolutely no conscious. You couldn't appeal to his better nature or empathy. There was just nothing there at all. He would wind all the other pupils up in the class and then sit and laugh as they went off. He didn't make it to adulthood - died of a drug overdose as a teen. He would have made a horrible adult.

Nope I do not think it exists. I think it is a way to excuse, minimise and explains away violent behaviour which someone chooses to do.

A person can be mean, nasty, violent, manipulative etc but framing them as mentally ill and not in control of their behaviour is excusing it away. Everyone makes a choice on how to behave.

The assessment criteria for psychopathy is hit by over 50% of the population and as there is no test to prove it exists at all do we believe that 50% of the population are psychopaths? Nah.

I have worked in the criminal justice system closely with adult offenders who have committed the most serious of crimes. Most often these people have had multiple disdvantages in their lives which have contributed to their offending behaviour (although this absolutely does NOT absolve them of responsibility) - things like parental abuse or neglect, extreme poverty, learning disabilities, traumatic loss, victims of war, dislocation from communities, addiction, grooming etc.

But now and again I've met people who outwardly appear to have had every advantage in life, deny experiencing adverse childhood experiences, and still show extreme callousness and lack of empathy. It does me wonder how early these behaviours emerge.

Have a read about this guy James H. Fallon
I believe there's a strong genetic component to true psychopathy then environment will influence how it manifets through behaviour

I do not believe the child perpetrators were simply "born evil". No child I have worked with in twenty years has been. Their behaviour has always been understandable (though awful) in the context of the experiences they had themselves been subjected to

And no wonder so many children grow up to be rapists and killers etc with attitudes like this. "There theye you've had a crappy childhood so it's perfectly understandable you tortured a toddler to death". That's disgusting.
Lots of children live through abusive childhoods and don't murder people.

I met a child who enjoying killing animals. He seemed to be on that path.