AIBU to feel hopeful that the British public could push the government to act on the climate emergency and avoid the point of no return?

[beeble347]

Donning my hard hat, but here goes. I'm an ordinary mum, since having my DS I've been very concerned about the stark statistics on the climate emergency and what it means for my family's safety. I have no background in science, but have done my best to educate myself on this topic and try to note down statistics exactly as reported.

I recently went to a screening of the People's Emergency Briefing, a 45 minute film featuring Chris Packham, Jennifer Saunders and Deborah Meaden, as well as ordinary members of the public. It showed talks by a number of professors (from Oxford University, UCL, Newcastle and so on) and experts in their field. It was hard-hitting but I actually felt hopeful at the end and motivated to lobby my MP and county councillors, some of whom attended the same screening and took part in the discussion afterwards. Some have already replied to me with encouraging emails about their support for the issue, action they have taken to reduce our local emissions.

Experts are warning that current trajectories in our use of fossil fuels risk warming the planet by 3-4 degrees C by the end of this century. Nobody wants to hear this, but the UK would become uninhabitable. The temperature and weather changes that would result in the UK would mean we couldn't grow food in our soil.

Even keeping planetary warming to 2 degrees C would require a yearly reduction in emissions of 13%. The world is expected to cross the threshold of 1.5C global warming in the next 3-5 years. The UK has reduced its actual emissions (including international aviation and shipping, and imports and exports) by about 20% since 1990, or an average of 0.6% each year.

I really feel it's the public's right to be informed about the urgency of the situation and how tangible and possible the solutions are, if only the government realises how much support there is for these changes. Thinking about the climate emergency felt so hopeless before, but I actually feel a sense of possibility now.

I know not everyone will agree with me or want to discuss this, but I wanted to share some facts on the topic. I also think so many, if not all, of the major issues concerning voters today are fundamental linked to the climate emergency. As someone said in this film, "the physics doesn't care about politics". I think we all have a lot more in common than we realise. I thought we had more time to delay taking action, but it really is a national emergency. But the research has already been done effectively, the solutions are right there and they're not beyond our reach.

Voters:
81.5% of the British public said they were deeply concerned about climate impacts in 2026.

National security (expert - Lt General Richard Nugee): this was one I found most shocking

• climate change meaning farmers can no longer earn a living, means they are more likely to be recruited by "non state actors" as the Lt Gen says happened in Afghanistan and Iraq with ISIS
• the melting Arctic ice is a new potential for conflict. Apparently Russia is declaring it an "internal sea" whereas the UK is not alone in treating the Arctic as international waters. So a risk of conflict over access, resources and shipping routes.
• then there's the obvious impact on migration as places in the global south are hit harder and earlier by extreme weather events

Housing:
Up to 1 in 4 properties in the UK will be at risk of flooding by 2050.
Houses are continuing to be built today that won't withstand the more extreme weather (including heat, think of the 40 degrees reached in summer of 2022) that we will continue to experience

Cost of living:
Continued nature depletion in the next decade could significantly impact GDP, a decline of up to 12%. The 2008 financial crisis caused a decline in UK GDP of 6.3%.

The fossil fuels system wastes about 2/3 of its potential energy when it's used. The example given was if you put £18 of petrol in your car, you get £6 worth of energy from it to actually move its wheels.

Food security:
With the closure of the Strait of Hormuz and the impact on international shipping and fertiliser prices, food prices are projected to increase by 50% by November. We need to be supporting British agriculture and making best use of the land we have available. Secondly, we have to support farmers in mitigating flooding and extreme heat and frosts.

Cost of Net Zero:

• £4 billion a year, paid back by 2041, represents 0.2% of GDP
• saves $12 trillion compared to staying on fossil fuels
• inflation would have been 7% lower if we had decarbonised the energy sector
• the total estimated cost of the UK transition to Net Zero is now 73% cheaper than thought (5 years ago)
• In the last decade, the cost of offshore wind energy production has dropped 50%. The cost of solar has dropped by 70%.

Points of Hope:

• electric vehicles were expected to have 20% of the market share by 2030. They have already reached that benchmark and are projected to have 40% market share by 2030.
• the UK has one fifth of the world's offshore wind capacity

This isn't everything but I wanted to start the conversation. I've joined a local branch of a national organisation pushing for action on the climate emergency. I've written to my MP and local county councillors, one of whom told me to set a weekly reminder and email my local representatives - she said parties at the moment don't know what they stand for and pressure from the public IS effective. I'm growing my own vegetables, joined my local nature group and hoping to start a seed swap.

Sorry for the length of this and if I've posted in the wrong place. I felt really hopeless and alone in the face of the climate emergency but I can see the momentum that's gathering and hope that this may reach someone who wasn't aware of some of the facts, who does want change and who gets some inspiration for how to make that change happen.

Completely agree. It shouldn't be a partisan issue IMO. Well, I would imagine parties would all have different ideas and policies for how to reach it, how to reskill workers in the fossil fuel industry, improve public transport etc but "should we or shouldn't we?" is baffling at this stage. We managed to ban gun ownership (for the most part) in the UK, to me and what I'm hearing from experts who know more than me, this is a significant threat to life and health.

That's awful. I work in a school and I've seen a shockingly poorly delivered workshop on a different issue. I do think young people will be seeing all sorts on social media and hearing things from friends, so it's important to educate them on climate change but god is it important to do it accurately, and in a way that's sensitive to their age.

It could be that some form of climate change would have happened in our lifetimes, we do know that the planet has at least seen life-altering events like a meteorite hitting, the Ice Age... I have seen some research showing carbon emissions increasing exponentially since the Industrial Revolution so I don't know that we could say it's not linked.

This - UK is a tiny portion of the problem you need to stop USA, China, India etc to reduce emissions which they are not prepared to do, so here we must bear the increased cost which will make little difference. I am not saying don't reduce emissions where you can, but let's be realistic about what UK can achieve and what sacrifices you can expect people to make.

You didn’t answer the question.

China have been aggressively investing in green energy, and are the world leader in it. India also professes commitment to achieving net zero, but are well behind China.

The World Health Organisation are trying to get the climate crisis recognised as a human health crisis of catastrophic consequences.

People, organisations are trying @beeble347 they have been trying for decades.

I don’t have solutions so don’t come at me but I find most British people sadly don’t give a shit. I think it may be because we’ve been facing this impending doom for many many years and everyone’s sick of hearing about it and also just doesn’t really believe it. Not from a climate denial angle but more from a “it’s unlikely to affect me in my lifetime so I don’t care” sort of angle.

When I was a kid everyone rambled on about the ozone and we were told aerosols were bad, then it healed and hairspray was ok again. I guess people just think it will turn around again, despite all warnings to the contrary. Also everyone has their own day to day shit to worry about so this isn’t top of their agenda. They’re trying to work, pay bills, care for children or older relatives, work out, eat healthily, not drink too much, take their medication/ vitamins, do skincare routines, run little Jimmy to 6 extracurricular clubs a week. People have a lot on, this just doesn’t make it to the top of the agenda.

Plus XR made things a lot worse. Everyone now thinks of climate activists as loons who jump on top of tubes and stop them getting to work.

We’ve known about the environmental crisis for 50 odd years at this point. We being the general public. Through that time we have had pressure groups and activities. I haven’t heard much of Friends of the Earth for a very long time. What happened was the impoverishment of ordinary people on a grand scale and huge rewards for those who gave no shit for anyone or anything else. I’m not sure if it was a direct reaction, but neoliberalism, the death of democracy and the push on computers, now AI, among other things sure as shit is the worst concatenation of cultural trends and tendencies that could have happened.

So sadly no, I don’t think public pressure can work, it hasn’t even worked to stop most of the public being impoverished. And it will not while many people can’t afford to live decently. Someone upthread pointed out you can’t afford solar panels and heat pumps while paying rent to a landlord, and that is exactly right- nor do you become magically able to afford them after finally scraping up enough for a deposit after 20 years and having to pay for a mortgage for the rest of your life, beyond retirement. We’re fucked.

At the least we need to stop immigration into this overpopulated island and persuade other countries to stop reproducing on the order of quadrupling their population every 20 years, but neither public pressure nor public action on the reduction of our birth rates has been successful.

Not sure what you’re expecting people who care to do what they haven’t already done. And the others, starting with the rich political and land owning classes, do not care.

“Everyone rambled on about aerosols… and then it was ok again”.

Jesus wept. Recreating the Victorian society of chattering classes and impoverished slum dwellers has a lot to answer for. The destruction of the value of education in favour of the value of money is a major problem.

The aerosol issue was created by a particular class of gases used as propellants, so injected freely into the atmosphere, CFCs. They were banned, at least in the west, and I think they have been reduced in China now. The damage has healed a bit since. Yet we still are advised to use SF 60 suncream now, whereas 12 used to be considered high protection in the 80s.

This is a question that is really unhelpful. Individuals can make very little impact alone and everyone still has to live their life as best they can. The ONLY way forward is collective action and moralising is unsupportive

China produces more carbon in like 10 days than you do in an entire year.

And China is not going to impoverish itself so you can feel good. So why impoverish yourselves for zero gain? What, you think Britain has some sort of obligation to moral leadership? Nobody cares.

Afghanistan has been one of great geopolitical battleground across history, how does the lt gen explain this in the context of climate change before there was climate change.

People with reachy convoluted theories like his don't help further any case.

China has a rather larger population and has taken in the burden of being the world’s production. Even with that it has become the world leader in renewable energy.

I disagree, but then I asked the question.
For me the answer sets the tone of the discussion.
So many people that talk about the climate emergency are those wirth many children, pets, multiple vehicles and holidays abroad, yet expect others to do more than them.

Lets not forget the boats that XR took into London, or the disruption to working people's lives, or the extra polution that this all caused.

The enviroment is an important subject, but its often undermined by those pushing the cause having little or no credibility due to there own actions or in action.

Do you think carpeting fields with solar panels constitutes 'supporting British agriculture and making best use of the land we have available'?

We are not a medium sized country we are a very small country.
To make any real difference India, China and the USA would all need to change as those 3 countries are responsible for over 53% of CO² emissions.
Honestly there's nothing that we as a country or our politicians can do to prevent climate change that hasn't already been done and anything else we do will just further hurt us as a population and country for no real gain

Only if the question is: How do we destroy modern society...

The dream of depopulation is that you can lower the population while keeping the same ratio of young to old, which is impossible. You will end up with a smaller, older population spiral, which is not sustainable unless you put all your hopes and dreams on an automated workforce doing everything for us.

China is producing solar panels that you should be producing, but won’t.

Although at a high environmental cost, literally lived in China when one factory poisoned a town’s lake, killing all the fish they were depending upon. And the kicker is that all those solar panels were for export. It was a big story at the time too.

Scratch any green but for a moment, and you’ll soon find red …..

Of course action should be taken but the UK is responsible for less than 1 percent of the worlds emissions so unless global reduction takes place our impact will be miniscule.

OK…. ..if all the small countries act it will make a difference because together we are the same as a big country. And yes I agree we can’t make a difference on our own.

We can’t ask/expect/hope USA, China and India to improve if we don’t.

Do you think only the UK is reducing ?

The Paris agreement is a coordinated global effort where almost all countries have committed to preventing an average temperature rise of 1.5’C by 2050.

The laggards are:

Iran
Libya
Yemen
The United States of America

I agree with the overall point that impoverishing ourselves while others wont, is not a good idea... but I do have some things to add about China. (Not specifically to you, but to all the mentions it gets on this thread)

Why does China produce more carbon? Because they have taken over the manufacturing that we used to do...

We haven't "Lowered" our carbon emissions... we have just moved them. To China, India, Vietnam etc. Instead of a factory in the UK producing X or Y emissions, those goods are now produced and imported, so we get the benefit, while those countries record the emissions...

The UK looks amazing for reducing its emissions, manufacturing countries look terrible, despite the fact that they are manufacturing it for us... its a farce that conveniently makes us feel better about ourself.

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For a real comparison, look at family emissions. Last time I did (when debating this 2 years ago) Chinese families, due to lifestyle choices, less travel, smaller homes, less cars, less pets, less meat eaten, have a carbon footprint 2x smaller than UK families.

So you end up with a very unfair situation where despite living more polluting lifestyles, and enjoying all the foreign-made goods, we get to pretend that we are doing our part for the Climate, yet it doesn't matter because that terrible China/India etc.

(Also you can add to this that those countries, especially China, are actually leading the way on real innovation/manufacturing solutions, solar panels, batteries, electronic cars etc.)

We are not going to follow you into climate madness.

We will continue to build prosperous economies and you will continue to get poorer because of your strange, anti-abundance ideology. Nobody outside the EU is going to follow you, get that into your heads.

There's a lot of talk about India and China doing their bit....but we cant look away, the rest of the world including the uk want our tech, phones, cars, clothes, etc we just dont manufacture it here. They're not doing it for nothing we are all ordering and buying stuff and they are making it....