To exclude sibling from wedding due to their lifestyle choice?

[Salitnan]

This will be incredibly identifying to anyone who knows my family and quite controversial but it’s such a bloody niche situation that nobody can relate to and it’s hugely stressing me out. I’m not writing this as ragebait or to troll, it is a genuine situation I am dealing with.

I’m getting married next year. My partner of 5 years is from a very traditional, right-wing Eastern European country. My partner however is very tolerant and chill, as are most of his immediate family who also live in Western countries.

We’ve decided to get married in his home country, as it’s very affordable there and we can have a beautiful package in an area of outstanding natural beauty, and he can invite his dear godparents who he adores (and they adore him) who are scared of flying.

This is all well and good but one of my family members is presenting an issue. My brother (who is an adult in their mid-20s) has a learning disability. This is not a problem, but in the past year they have come out as transgender. This has been a massive struggle for us as there were no signs previously and it came out of nowhere, and they have insisted they are going ahead with the transition and they self-harm if anyone misgenders them or politely reminds them of etiquette in public places regarding toilets, or wearing appropriate clothing for a social situation etc. It has been extremely hard work for my aging parents, he lives with them full time. The learning disability alongside being transgender makes them massively vulnerable and they get stared at in public and often started on when in the city centre by lads, and they aren’t aware of their vulnerability. They insist on dressing incredibly provocatively (wig and heels, provocative clothes) as they say they feel insecure otherwise, and when I have tried to explain to them that women don’t necessarily dress like that, they self-harm. They insult people in public, not to their face, they will say it to my mum (will whisper in her ear “he looks like a twat”), but sometimes people have overheard and started on him and my mum has had to explain about his disability and fend them off.

I’m already in therapy to deal with complex feelings towards them from how they dominate my parents lives and how I felt neglected as a child due to the focus on them and their vulnerabilities. The recent coming out as transgender has brought up a lot of old resentment I had towards him which I had buried, and I’m trying to have the therapy so that I can have a bond with him going forward, but I can’t help but feel a sort of anger at him, and I hate myself for it.

Back onto the wedding topic - I’ve realised I simply don’t want them at the wedding. My fiancé’s family are nice people and wouldn’t be a danger to my brother but many of my fiancé’s extended family members are from a small isolated village in a Catholic Eastern European country and he will be stared at like a hawk, whispered about. To he quite frank he will stick out like a sore thumb with his clothes and hair. As awful as it sounds I will be embarrassed by him and on edge, and won’t be able to enjoy my day. My partner says he’ll notify everyone in advance that my brother will be there and what to expect but I just really can’t be doing with the stress of it all. It’s not just family it’s the the staff in the hotel, other members of the public around who might be drinking, and they will need to stay in the country a few days around the ceremony so lots of opportunity for things to go wrong. They have severe social anxiety due to their learning disability and have been known to sneak alcohol as a way to deal with this and this further increases their vulnerability as they lose their filter and say their mind in front of people.

I did try to compromise and said to my mum I’d be happy to have them if if they would be willing to tone down their dress in order to come to the wedding - dropping the wig and toning down their clothes, but they have become angry at this suggestion and have refused.

I’ve told my mum it may be the case that I can’t invite them, and therefore my parents can’t come either as they are his carers. My mum says she understands and we can have a do later on back in the UK.

I just want my day to not be dominated by him. I also don’t want to have to change the wedding plans that me and my partner are happy with just to suit him. Am I an awful person?

Eh? Op’s fiancé ‘chose’ to be from a particular country! It is because he is from that country that are holding the wedding there. Amongst what appears to be family and friends.

Op, I think the most worrying thing is the potential threat of physical violence that has made an appearance. He needed intervention when he was saying/leaving notes about self harming (although that may have been more a way of manipulating others as he saw how it controlled how people reacted to him).

It is on a different level now as he has put a knife to your father’s throat, and manhandled your mother. A potential danger towards others seems to have emerged, and it is worrying that it could be escalating. Including others outside your family as he left a note about harming men who dress a certain way. He is a big man to boot, so if he were to put himself about someone could very well be hurt.

It sounds a very difficult situation. I would go ahead with the wedding in your partner's country without your brother. Then have a smaller celebration (eg. family meal) in the UK with your brother and parents afterwards. You're not being unreasonable not wanting your brother to dominate (and probably spoil) your wedding day.

IT IS NOT REMOTELY ABOUT INTOLERANCE.

IT IS ABOUT AN INDIVIDUAL WITH A HISTORY OF CONCERNING BEHAVIOUR WHICH CAN NOT BE IGNORED.

Failure to acknowledge this could mean that the OPs parents are seriously hurt at some point, any of the men that the OPs brother is being triggered by due to their haircut being seriously hurt, the breakdown of the OPs marriage due to behaviour directed at the OP or her husband and god forbid the safeguarding implications if the OP has children.

This male is a risk. He is male bodied and his male body remains relevant particularly due to the risk to his mother from his physical size and strength from already demostrated behaviour patterns. The OP needs to be risk assessing the situation and future situations for herself and anyone else she may be bringing him into contact with.

At present her brother is not in a stable enough mental health state to be present AT ANY WEDDING. If he's leaving notes at the golf club that require police intervention, this is not a case of the OP or even her eastern european relatives being intolerant. This is a full blown issue regarding the well being of anyone and everyone he may come into contact with - the wedding is just one scenario but one the OP feels (naturally) responsible for. And this is actually in the best interests of her brother himself. If he does kick off, the outcomes immediately become significantly worse.

Unless he becomes more regulated and stable the OP has to make these shitty decisions. She can't avoid them, when she may not have had to think about things in these terms or have the responsibility of anyone but herself in the past.

Saying its about intolerance is fuckwitted ignorant virtue signalling from an ivory tower.

Meanwhile in the real world...

Why are you being so obnoxious to the OP? Any challenges the parents have had to deal with are due to her brother.

You haven’t lived her life.

You don't owe anyone anything.

No one

Have your lovely day without them

The brother is a liability to himself and to other people and has shown violent traits to boot. He obviously can't come to the wedding. Unfortunately that means parents as his carers can't come either, as they refuse to get brother used to or into any respite care. Sounds like it's always about HIM and his wants and needs in the OP's family. OP deserves the wedding she and her partner want. Surely she can come first on her own wedding day. The only thing I can think of here is to have the wedding on a Facetime so the family can watch it 'live' at home, then do a smaller celebration there after the main event. A conversation then needs opened about DB's future when parents are no longer able to care for him. Stand firm OP and look forward to your new life; he sounds unbearable.

OP I think the problem is you’ve got so used to your family just coping with your brother, that you all work round him, that you have to just cope, you have framed this as his lifestyle of deciding he’s now trans that’s the problem.

If it was just that he was trans, you could work round that. But it’s not is it?

Accept he can’t be at any wedding, he can’t be around people he doesn’t know, he can’t be at family events that serve alcohol. He couldn’t come if you held the wedding 10 minutes down the road from your parents.

can he be left alone at all? Eg even if you held the wedding 10 minutes down the road from your parents, could both go anyway?

Putting OP's brother to one side for a moment...

If a couple are from two different countries, it's not uncommon to have a celebration in each country. I've been to two weddings where that was the case. In both cases, some guests did travel overseas to the legal ceremony, but most didn't. I think that's perfectly acceptable, and suits the OP's difficult family circumstances.

I think as well some people see "brain injury, LD" and ignore absolutely everything else and scream about intolerance without looking at all the evidence presented.

There are two families here and it would be completely unreasonable to uproot the OPs partners entire branch of the family to simply appease her brother. A brother who would probably display the same behaviours wherever it was held.

I also think it's important to note that the OP is in therapy for what she calls a neglectful childhood and having to deal with her complex childhood due to her siblings needs.

Is the OP not as important as her brother? All these people saying that the OP must upend her wedding so that it centres around her sibling are only encouraging this cycle of trauma to continue and as if the OPs own experiences and feelings are completely invalidated.

She's said that her parents have been neglectful towards her yet she's somehow expected to ensure that they are come first and foremost at her wedding or else they "won't forgive her". What about the OPs childhood? Is she expected to just forget everything?

'The OP is entitled to have her wedding where she wants without you dictating to her where this "should" be'

I'm not dictating anything. She asked for opinions, that's how chat forums work?

Because he is an unwelcome pita, regardless of the reason for this.

There isn’t a way to include her parents without also including her brother, giving up the wedding she actually wants, and excluding important relatives of the groom that he wants there. Including her parents means once OP wants again having to revolve her life around her brother, as if she hasn’t had to do that enough as it is.

Are you going to address any of the multiple posts pointing out to you that some of DPs local relatives would be financially excluded from travelling due to poverty, or do Eastern Europeans still not count?

There’s no ‘should’ about it. OP and her groom chose the wedding they wanted.

She doesn’t want her brother there. Unfortunately that means her parents won’t be there either. Considering how they’ve consistently neglected her in favour of her brother throughout her life, this is more of the same crap she’s had to resign herself to. If her mother finds OP centering herself for once, on her own wedding day, ‘unforgivable’, then she’s got some fucking audacity tbh.

They don't earn you enough virtue signal cookies. They don't count because they are evil subhumans because they aren't from a culture which is left wing enough for certain tastes.

Its funny to see this level of intolerance somehow hand waved aware as not being xenophobic in its own right.

You did some good shaming and smearing of a woman in therapy due to childhood trauma. You did some pretty good racism. All whilst claiming how tolerant you are. That was pretty impressive.

You don't need to dictate. You just emotionally blackmailed.

Racism?! The op herself has prioritised guests scared of flying over her own parents.
I'm not smearing anyone. Parents should be at their dc's weddings imo! I would encourage anyone to facilitate that rather than choose a country impossible for the parents to get to due to caring duties and a very unwelcome son.

The PP also managed as well to defend male violence against women and anyone seen be calling this out was deemed "intolerant"

Impressive indeed. And I spent some time working with people who had learning disabilities and violent behaviour. The LD in some cases may have explained the behaviour but it was never excused or brushed aside. And there was a LOT of risk management and planning went on which interestingly enough didn't just expect the general public to sit back and be non-judhemental.

Erm, obviously Eastern Europeans count I haven't at any point suggested they don't?

Parents should obviously be a priority though when choosing venues and ability to attend.

Even parents who the OP is in therapy with due to a neglectful childhood?

Or are you just going to continue to ignore all the facts that don't fit your own narrative?

Yes racism.
Yes smearing.

You've pretty much told the OP to know her place and that she's a bad daughter and person if she doesn't sacrifice herself to her brother's demands and his unacceptable behaviour because FAMILY. (cue Mitchell Family tones)

You have absoluetely no concept of toxic family dynamics and abuse within a family unit or you think that it should be enabled no matter what. You've pretty much said that the OP's mental health and anxiety doesn't matter because her brother is more important due to his protected characteristic even though he's abusive.

Fuck that enabling shit.

Your denial of this doesn't stop it being right there for everyone to have read and processed for what it is - punching down on the OP for daring to think about herself for once.

Do you now accept that OP states some of DPs local relatives would be financially excluded from attendance, and that it isn't merely about those who have a fear of flying? This is a yes or no question.

I repeat that I would not marry into a right wing family that blindly follows religion and has bigoted views and would expect me to hide a sibling at my wedding simply for being different. Nor would I want my future kids to be surrounded by these relatives and potentially made to feel bad if they turned out to be disabled/gay or trans.

Those are my boundaries.

You are perfectly entitled to have a different opinion, that does not make mine any less valid.

He cant go in the womens toilets in the UK either... being a man and all.

Having her parents at her wedding MEANS INCLUDING HER BROTHER. No matter what country OP marries in.

Putting the focus on facilitating her parents means facilitating her brother, which you full well know.

I'll add to my previous posts.

I attended a wedding in former Yugoslavia last year. The bride, groom, best man and best maid plus all guests under the age of 40 could speak good English. Most of the other guests knew at least some English. (In Communist times, those my age - I'm in my 60s - studied Russian or German at school.)

My point is that the OP's brother might not understand what is being said to him at a Balkans wedding, but I can assure you that if he kicks off and begins to insult other guests they, the caterers and management will assuredly understand him and a night in the cells will be the least of his worries.

The OP would finish up with a ruined wedding reception and her parents would finish up with legal bills. (I'm assuming that the brother wouldn't pay for those himself.)