To exclude sibling from wedding due to their lifestyle choice?

[Salitnan]

This will be incredibly identifying to anyone who knows my family and quite controversial but it’s such a bloody niche situation that nobody can relate to and it’s hugely stressing me out. I’m not writing this as ragebait or to troll, it is a genuine situation I am dealing with.

I’m getting married next year. My partner of 5 years is from a very traditional, right-wing Eastern European country. My partner however is very tolerant and chill, as are most of his immediate family who also live in Western countries.

We’ve decided to get married in his home country, as it’s very affordable there and we can have a beautiful package in an area of outstanding natural beauty, and he can invite his dear godparents who he adores (and they adore him) who are scared of flying.

This is all well and good but one of my family members is presenting an issue. My brother (who is an adult in their mid-20s) has a learning disability. This is not a problem, but in the past year they have come out as transgender. This has been a massive struggle for us as there were no signs previously and it came out of nowhere, and they have insisted they are going ahead with the transition and they self-harm if anyone misgenders them or politely reminds them of etiquette in public places regarding toilets, or wearing appropriate clothing for a social situation etc. It has been extremely hard work for my aging parents, he lives with them full time. The learning disability alongside being transgender makes them massively vulnerable and they get stared at in public and often started on when in the city centre by lads, and they aren’t aware of their vulnerability. They insist on dressing incredibly provocatively (wig and heels, provocative clothes) as they say they feel insecure otherwise, and when I have tried to explain to them that women don’t necessarily dress like that, they self-harm. They insult people in public, not to their face, they will say it to my mum (will whisper in her ear “he looks like a twat”), but sometimes people have overheard and started on him and my mum has had to explain about his disability and fend them off.

I’m already in therapy to deal with complex feelings towards them from how they dominate my parents lives and how I felt neglected as a child due to the focus on them and their vulnerabilities. The recent coming out as transgender has brought up a lot of old resentment I had towards him which I had buried, and I’m trying to have the therapy so that I can have a bond with him going forward, but I can’t help but feel a sort of anger at him, and I hate myself for it.

Back onto the wedding topic - I’ve realised I simply don’t want them at the wedding. My fiancé’s family are nice people and wouldn’t be a danger to my brother but many of my fiancé’s extended family members are from a small isolated village in a Catholic Eastern European country and he will be stared at like a hawk, whispered about. To he quite frank he will stick out like a sore thumb with his clothes and hair. As awful as it sounds I will be embarrassed by him and on edge, and won’t be able to enjoy my day. My partner says he’ll notify everyone in advance that my brother will be there and what to expect but I just really can’t be doing with the stress of it all. It’s not just family it’s the the staff in the hotel, other members of the public around who might be drinking, and they will need to stay in the country a few days around the ceremony so lots of opportunity for things to go wrong. They have severe social anxiety due to their learning disability and have been known to sneak alcohol as a way to deal with this and this further increases their vulnerability as they lose their filter and say their mind in front of people.

I did try to compromise and said to my mum I’d be happy to have them if if they would be willing to tone down their dress in order to come to the wedding - dropping the wig and toning down their clothes, but they have become angry at this suggestion and have refused.

I’ve told my mum it may be the case that I can’t invite them, and therefore my parents can’t come either as they are his carers. My mum says she understands and we can have a do later on back in the UK.

I just want my day to not be dominated by him. I also don’t want to have to change the wedding plans that me and my partner are happy with just to suit him. Am I an awful person?

Can’t the OP have anything the way she would like it? Feel sorry for the mum though

yanbu in the slightest op. This sounds exceptionally difficult and, as someone with a sibling whose issues dominated my own childhood, I understand.

It’s your wedding: you don’t have to have him there.

Firstly, yes you must have your wedding abroad without your brother. Perhaps this may be the trigger that your parents need to see that pandering to him isn't helping any of you, and also you'd be making it clear that you won't put your life aside to look after him. If they're refusing to look into residential care then maybe they hope you'll take over yourself?

Anyway you already know that you can't really influence any of them, so you can only do what's right for your new family.

I do wonder about the timing of this - do you think that his escalation is in response to you finally getting some attention, due to your wedding? It does sound like the emotional maturity and response of a toddler.

Anyway good luck and I hope you can make peace with your decision.

OP, this is a really hard situation. For what it's worth, I don't think he should be there, for various reasons, not least because this is your big day and it would make it so stressful to you. If that means your parents can't go, that is sad, but given the situation, it is not for you to manage. Enjoy your day!

Now that that is out of the way: as a culturally catholic Eastern European living in the UK, as a mental health professional who has worked with disabled and also with trans people, as simply a human ... reading a lot of this thread felt absolutely disgusting. The casual cruelty and meanness towards the parents and the brother, the casual xenophobia, the uninformed yet confidently communicated stereotypes, the simmering outrage that OP would choose to marry in an Eastern European country ... the mind-numbingly senseless, bleating transphobia that blinds people so much they will verbally kick and kick and kick a learning disabled man. A man who probably has no capacity to actually understand what it means to be trans. This is really scraping the bottom of the Mumsnet barrell. Some of you need to stop for a second and think, really think, whether this is the kind of person you always wanted to become, whether you're happy acting so hateful and small.

That's all I have to say on this, and all I will. OP, best of luck to you!

I think your parents and you would benefit from contacting Transgender Trend and/or Bayswater Support. They can probably direct your brother to therapeutic support that will help identify where his confused thinking about his sex has come from. It seems very clear that this is quite complicated and he needs a skilled psychotherapist with experience of cognitive and EBD disability. If he can/will engage with this it will also support your parents and you.
https://www.transgendertrend.com/
https://www.bayswatersupport.org.uk/
Please do not be put off by anybody telling you these are 'anti-trans' organisations or that they practice conversion therapy - this is quite untrue. Any support/contacts they might be able to provide will take a neutral, exploratory stance. It is true that they do not rush to affirm and are wary of medical transition but it sounds like you already feel that there is something related to his online exposure that has made transgenderism become an unhealthy and compulsive interest for him.
PS Have the wedding you want - you need to exclude him because he can not compromise enough to allow you and your partner to be the focus of the day, as you should.

A day will come where he will have to accept some form of care that doesn't involve your parents. Why should you be robbed of these special memories. Your parents need a break. Can you do some practice runs with rspite. Do your parents access any social care for him? I don't think just wearing a demure outfit will fly or resolve your worries. Sounds like it is time for tough love.

Sorry you have to deal with this x

Definitely not unreasonable to exclude him. I get he’s disabled but the trans thing is a step too far. If he is threatening to self harm that is a definite no because you will be worrying that someone inadvertently upsets him.It also means he is manipulating the people in his life.

It’s a shame for your parents but go, get married and have a fabulous day. Please don’t let his threats and delusions spoil the beginning of married life for you

I couldn't be dealing with this attention seeking bollocks.

I'd not invite them at all. And I wouldn't care how upset they got over it.

I'd still try and get your parents to the wedding. Not sure how disabled your sibling is - is there a cousin/neighbour/family friend who can check in on him for a few days while your parents are away?

Just to say, this is a totally normal, valid feeling. I wouldn't like him either. Regardless of his degree of culpability, he is making your life incredibly difficult, crushing your parents' lives and actively endangering them.

It's all very well for people in completely different situations (no relatives with disabilities/ claiming a trans identity, or only one of the two, or milder or more manageable disabilities) to lecture from on high about how tolerant and self-sacrificing you should be because they don't have to live it. It's very easy to sacrifice other people to a moral stance.

Have your wedding without him. It's a real shame if that means your own parents can't attend (if they really can't as opposed to won't rock the boat in order to do so) but I think it's the lesser of two evils.

And for goodness sake don't agree to take on the care of your brother once your parents are gone. You deserve a full and happy family life of your own unshadowed by constant threats, manipulation and disruption. And you certainly shouldn't be exposing your children to that scenario. As much as anything it sounds like it would be potentially dangerous for them. Your parents will have to make other arrangements.

Support to you.

Why don’t you have a Registry Office wedding in the UK followed by a small party, and then the big celebration abroad?
Then your parents would feel like they were at the ‘real one’.

For what it’s worth, I am East European, and they do have trans people there and I don’t think they would be that shocked at a man in wig and heels… however, it does sound like there is a big chance it could all go terribly wrong and spoil your day! What with all the other factors…

It’s not only cultural, a lot of people would feel really uncomfortable with someone who had threatened to harm themselves if they weren’t validated as a woman.

Because she doesn’t want to? Why should she not have the wedding she wants in order to accommodate someone she doesn’t really want there no matter the location?

If it’s a Catholic Balkan country it’s either Slovenia or Croatia. More likely to be Croatia imo. If he’s walking around like a drag queen and trying to use women’s toilets then he will be inviting problems, even in Zagreb which tends to be more relaxed. I say this as someone from Serbia, that is very familiar with the former Jugoslavia as a whole.

If it’s an area of outstanding beauty, then I’m thinking it’s a rural area of Ličko-senjska and/or Karlovac, where he will be even less likely to be received well. Physical violence against him isn’t likely, but if he reacts aggressively to hostility, or even just perceived rudeness (because there is a significant cultural difference in communication styles, and the normal directness of Slavs can be taken as rudeness even when it’s not) then the situation could easily deteriorate quickly.

I wouldn't invite him to the wedding. I don't think YABU at all.

Is there any way he could stay with your dad and just your mum could make the wedding? (And get a much-needed break from him?)

As for how to handle it, I'd get your parents in on an excuse. Cite the distance, the expense, or get convenient tickets to something your brother would rather go to instead. Create some plausible reason. Divert him so it won't trigger a full meltdown. A white lie is acceptable in this circumstance, in my view.

The most likely outcome is that your parents won't attend if he can't. That's upsetting, but it really does sound like it might be worth the trade-off, for you to actually enjoy your day. Just because your parents have always put him first doesn't mean you have to as well. Just because he self-harms when he feels rejected doesn't mean you can't ever leave him out of your plans. You've been second fiddle to him your whole life. You're allowed to put yourself first at your own wedding. Protect his feelings if you can, but don't let him rule your life.

OP, the more you write, the more I don't think this is about his 'lifestyle choice' at all- what's clear is he has both learning disability and MH issues- he is making threats to the point the police are called, he takes against other men's haircuts, their clothes, this is irrational, and he's pulling a knife on your parents as well as self-harming, biting and is mute a lot of the time. This is far too much for you to take into your wedding, and to be honest, far too much for your parents to contain for much longer, he sounds like he needs more help and support than what's available- and social services have said as much, so I would talk frankly to your parents, ideally they need to be seeking more from social services, including respite, support and ideally independent living.

You cannot control what they do, though OP, read the 'Let Them' theory book, and protect your own happiness and that of your new family- see him as and when it suits you and on your terms.

You can't all pretend this is normal behaviour, I think the trans is a red herring, he has all kinds of difficulties that are beyond what is containable in regular social situations, and it's ok for you to distance yourself from this and do what you can to support your parents from a distance too. You being in the middle of it and distressed isn't shifting anything, so I'd look after your own wellbeing first and stop feeling guilty that you feel upset and angry about the situation you are now in.

Stick to your plan set boundaries that serve your needs it’s nice that you are trying to make the event inclusive but if this person spoils the main event you will have the resentment to deal with they may also be grateful to be off the hook if they are likely to find the situation stressful you sound like a very considerate person
have you heard the expression’if in doubt- leave it out you will have options to mend bridges in future if you want but this is not the occasion

It's really hard. I mean no one on here knows everything you have been through. My mum had a severe mental illness, alcoholism and other issues. I did find her embarassing at times and people stared at her. However, she was a lovely caring mother when she had the capacity. She did come to my wedding and no one batted an eyelid. But your case is different I think as your brother/sister sounds a little unhinged and unstable. I think maybe you should't invite them and instead do a dinner with them and your parents when you get back.

OP, have the wedding abroad and then do a mini celebration for your family in the UK. And don't feel bad - this is a highly complex situation and you and your partner deserve to have a special day.

The risk of harm (from self or others) to your brother when abroad is too high, so you should definitely not invite him to the wedding.

Is there any way your dad could cope with him alone for a couple of days so that your mum could at least attend?

I’m sorry you’ve lived with this, I think a lot of people with a disabled or mentally ill sibling have experienced complex situations like this and maybe a support group would help you to not feel so isolated. Something like this maybe: https://www.sibs.org.uk/support-for-adult-siblings

@Salitnan have the wedding abroad then another more intimate one here with family. Ive been on these boards loads and its come up before, about having a disabled family member at a wedding, usually as autistic child not wanted at a wedding. The advice is usually not to go as a family full stop, which i agree with. However this is very complex, there's a genuine chance your brother will cause lots of stress intentionally and spoil your day. Hes not a child, and has made his feelings clear. Id understand if I were your parent, but would want to celebrate here too. Don't let a few posters here get you down.

Ha ha. Good one!

Call me old fashioned but I still interpret 'they' and 'them' as plural.

It sounds to me as though it would be better all round if your brother stayed at home. Do your parents never get a break from him? Could he not be looked after somewhere for a couple of days?

The having-a-do-at-home idea is also worth considering.

Quite honestly your parents would probably dread coming as it would not be enjoyable for them. I was going to suggest one parent come alone but it sounds like your Mum would not be able to. I would do two celebrations, one in the UK for your family here. Don’t feel guilty about not having your brother there as it sounds like it would be too difficult.

Not the point of your post but is your brother getting any mental health support or respite for your parents. It is sad how many vulnerable young people are getting caught up in trans and possibly groomed online to believe it’s the solution to their problems. I really do feel for your parents.

Has your brother not got a full time support worker, he is surely entitled to the money to have one. Having that may mean he has his support and your parents are less in the carer role and can be more like parents to him & you.
His disability has clearly impacted you all & I am sure many of these feelings are common in similar situations.
However, despite everything would you not be worried how the invitation could affect him.
Or how you may feel in years time that he wasn't there.
It would be very sad to think he wishes to transition if this something he is vulnerable to from outside influence but a consistent professional person employed and funded to support him would be aware more if this is genuinely his choice, if so, then I feel the whole family and you are going through adjustment at what is a big change. I'm sure it's another sense of grief (him not being the brother you had hoped) and they are understandable feelings.
However, I think you should consider how family could be involved and he be the person he has chosen to be, in a special way either at this wedding or a different intimate meal etc.
I do think if you cover this with a good therapist you could increase your bond, manage your own feelings of embarrassment & meet more where he is living. You could have a wonderful bond & life is short.
With a good PA and advocate for him you could have a very happy relationship and accepting position. Your husband sounds like he has thought about this and ways to manage.
I don't have any answers in this situation but I know that his life with his own worker and your parents not acting as carers could reduce this family stress and allow for you to come together without that added stress. He also sounds like he needs this in order to explore and make decisions free from family strain. I wish you well and hope you find a situation that works for all.
One thing I would consider in therapy is maybe how you can handle your emotions of feeling embarrassed. Others opinions don't need to matter as much for you (easier said than done) but will help you navigate and free yourself from a lot of the emotional entanglement.
I wish you well.

Suppose the concern is how you’ll approach both your sibling and mum to tell them they can’t come. I think your mum in particular will be devastated and your sibling is clearly mentally ill so could they take it particularly badly? You need to be careful how you handle it but I don’t think you’re unreasonable not to want them there.

But why should she have to compromise on her wedding day of all days? I can imagine the OP has had to spend her entire life comprising and putting her brother first. And now she's been told that she still has to put him first on one of the most important days of her life.

This sounds a horrendous situation OP, but please have the day you want to. I can't see what possible good would come from inviting your brother.