To exclude sibling from wedding due to their lifestyle choice?

[Salitnan]

This will be incredibly identifying to anyone who knows my family and quite controversial but it’s such a bloody niche situation that nobody can relate to and it’s hugely stressing me out. I’m not writing this as ragebait or to troll, it is a genuine situation I am dealing with.

I’m getting married next year. My partner of 5 years is from a very traditional, right-wing Eastern European country. My partner however is very tolerant and chill, as are most of his immediate family who also live in Western countries.

We’ve decided to get married in his home country, as it’s very affordable there and we can have a beautiful package in an area of outstanding natural beauty, and he can invite his dear godparents who he adores (and they adore him) who are scared of flying.

This is all well and good but one of my family members is presenting an issue. My brother (who is an adult in their mid-20s) has a learning disability. This is not a problem, but in the past year they have come out as transgender. This has been a massive struggle for us as there were no signs previously and it came out of nowhere, and they have insisted they are going ahead with the transition and they self-harm if anyone misgenders them or politely reminds them of etiquette in public places regarding toilets, or wearing appropriate clothing for a social situation etc. It has been extremely hard work for my aging parents, he lives with them full time. The learning disability alongside being transgender makes them massively vulnerable and they get stared at in public and often started on when in the city centre by lads, and they aren’t aware of their vulnerability. They insist on dressing incredibly provocatively (wig and heels, provocative clothes) as they say they feel insecure otherwise, and when I have tried to explain to them that women don’t necessarily dress like that, they self-harm. They insult people in public, not to their face, they will say it to my mum (will whisper in her ear “he looks like a twat”), but sometimes people have overheard and started on him and my mum has had to explain about his disability and fend them off.

I’m already in therapy to deal with complex feelings towards them from how they dominate my parents lives and how I felt neglected as a child due to the focus on them and their vulnerabilities. The recent coming out as transgender has brought up a lot of old resentment I had towards him which I had buried, and I’m trying to have the therapy so that I can have a bond with him going forward, but I can’t help but feel a sort of anger at him, and I hate myself for it.

Back onto the wedding topic - I’ve realised I simply don’t want them at the wedding. My fiancé’s family are nice people and wouldn’t be a danger to my brother but many of my fiancé’s extended family members are from a small isolated village in a Catholic Eastern European country and he will be stared at like a hawk, whispered about. To he quite frank he will stick out like a sore thumb with his clothes and hair. As awful as it sounds I will be embarrassed by him and on edge, and won’t be able to enjoy my day. My partner says he’ll notify everyone in advance that my brother will be there and what to expect but I just really can’t be doing with the stress of it all. It’s not just family it’s the the staff in the hotel, other members of the public around who might be drinking, and they will need to stay in the country a few days around the ceremony so lots of opportunity for things to go wrong. They have severe social anxiety due to their learning disability and have been known to sneak alcohol as a way to deal with this and this further increases their vulnerability as they lose their filter and say their mind in front of people.

I did try to compromise and said to my mum I’d be happy to have them if if they would be willing to tone down their dress in order to come to the wedding - dropping the wig and toning down their clothes, but they have become angry at this suggestion and have refused.

I’ve told my mum it may be the case that I can’t invite them, and therefore my parents can’t come either as they are his carers. My mum says she understands and we can have a do later on back in the UK.

I just want my day to not be dominated by him. I also don’t want to have to change the wedding plans that me and my partner are happy with just to suit him. Am I an awful person?

Oh my goodness OP what a difficult situation. I really feel for you, and your parents.
i think you need to separate a few things in your head:
number 1: the learning disability.
This means their mental age is childlike. That’s why they won’t listen to reason. You can explain until you’re blue in the face that they don’t need to dress provocatively. They will not take it onboard as their brain has the understanding of a child.
they reach the point of a tantrum like a child except it is expressed as self-harm, probably because they’ve read about it on the internet and they are copying just like a chikd would.

number 2: transgender
what they feel is valid and no matter how much we don’t understand, we do need to accept as fellow human beings. It is hard but we do. I see you giving your all to be accepting and understanding and I see it is genuine.
however
the learning disability mixed with the transgender is very very difficult combination. The need for attention is overwhelming any logic of the validation of their choice to identify as transgender. You won’t ever resolve this because the learning disability hinders maturity, reasoning etc etc your brother has reached a point where they control the family. Just like an alcoholic might control the atmosphere of a wedding if they drink too much and cause a scene. Your brother has disregarded your feelings because his learning disability prevents their brain from doing so.

number 3: your parents
I presume your brother has an autism ADHD or bi-polar diagnosis alongside the learning disability ? Or BPD? If not, he needs to be re-assessed.
years ago your brother would’ve found a different thing to latch on to which would’ve been possibly less overt than transgender identity. I do believe he identifies simply because it’s an option he knows about. ND people don’t feel like they belong so finding an identity makes them feel in control.
the boundaries your parents previously set worked with his less attention seeking interests. Things are now incredibly difficult.
they are a child in an adult body. It’s very hard to manage. They do need to start thinking about other options. I don’t know what that might be. Local authority care no longer exists. It is a difficult existence for everyone involved.

i feel you do need to exclude them from your wedding as their childlike behaviour is unpredictable, and mature behaviour simply won’t happen because they have a learning disability. I have no idea how you go about this. I am sorry.

I wish you well and I wish you a happy wedding day.

I totally understand, I am in a similar situation and there is no easy answer. But until your parents, who seem to be telling you they are struggling with his behaviour and need help as his physical size appears to be an issue, then things will not change. At the very least they need respite care and maybe he needs to be in a halfway home type thing because no matter how much your parents love their children, given their age, they will not be able to keep this up much longer. A transition into a different care plan would be cruel for him initially but the kindest thing in the long run.

Be honest about why you do not want him at your wedding and plan the wedding the way you want it.

She has been honest! There is more than one reason why she wants to marry abroad, one of those being that she and the groom don’t want to deal with his behavior at her wedding.

She and they both know this means that her parents won’t be able to attend. She doesn’t explicitly want to exclude them, but she’d rather accept that than give up the wedding she actually wants.

What have you read about him so far that is likeable???

I think your sibling needs to meet some other trans people including trans women so she can hear the message about appropriate dress for a wedding from somebody she knows accepts her as a woman.

Trans women are at particular risk of serious violence from cis gender men and will take care with their clothing. At an early stage of a planned medical transition ie. before and in the early stages of hormones some trans women will choose / feel compelled to present as male in some or all contexts for their safety.

Finding a local trans support group should help. And this is worth doing regardless of whether she comes to the wedding. The people there will be able to guide her on appropriate day to day dress and how that different from the styles of dress people wear to go out. They'll be able to support your parents too. They'll know about good places for lazer hair removal and trans friendly gyms and swimming sessions.

Your biggest problem is the length of the NHS waiting lists for the gender identity clinics; you have somebody probably dysphoric about her testosterone dominant system wanting to switch to an oestrogen based one and many years delay until that can happen. There are high suicide and self harm rates for trans people. It reads like her self harm at least appears manipulative of other people's choices and that there's a behavioural component running alongside the distress. She really needs to be seen.

I wonder if you can set up a live stream for her and your parents to watch from home, or if they make it to the country from their hotel room. I thought I was going to emphasise the damage you might do to your relationship by not inviting her because she's trans. And that's a factor. But I think you might present it as 'x country isn't safe for trans people at the minute'. The problem in conservative places isn't that you might feel embarrassed about what she's wearing, it's that men might kill her in the streets. With the potential for very serious harm, if she can't/ won't learn to dress appropriately she will be safer at home.

Nobody owes anyone their time, especially one who is unpleasant to them, even if they are family.

OP your wedding day is one of those days where it’s about YOU. For once (it sounds) you get to be the priority and if that involves you getting married abroad then you absolutely can do that.

I think it’s sad your parents don’t get to come but again it sounds like you’re actually being very considerate and not attempting to coerce them to come or anything.

After the wedding I’d suggest having an honest conversation with your parents and your DB about the future and your plans to not be his carer.

All the best OP, I think it sounds very tricky

No problem, I was one of the people who didn't get it until I did. I hope things improve for you in some way, for us personally they did eventually. Take care.

In my experience of having a son who would, at times, tick every single box to qualify for being sectioned, hasn't been. Both medical services, the police and social workers have all agreed he should. But not actually done anything to make it happen. My husband and I have spent decades trying to get him help and support - and to be honest helping him would help us too. Every self respecting professional has been kind and passed us over to other kind self respecting professionals, but at the end of the day there has been nothing that has made any difference to our lives, I know it must be hard for others to believe that, and I guess many people reading it may think we have not tried hard enough, but believe me we have spent decades contacting so many avenues of support, all of which have been a dead end.

Its your day, you come first

Are you kidding? You don't just get sectioned for having a learning disability and being trans. Even if he got sectioned for one of the incidents (as opposed to being arrested), you don't just stay sectioned forever in case you might harm yourself or others.

You are not unreasonable at all. Have a beautiful happy wedding and then a celebration with your family in the Uk.
you DESERVE THIS.
put yourself first. This is YOUR wedding xx

I have zero experience in this but I recall another thread with a woman whose DH was sectioned and it was for only a couple of weeks and rhe guy was truly delusional plus they had a daughter. I mean it seemed so difficult to get him in an institution it seems so unlikely that this OP brother is even close to the threshold.
Mental health care is so woeful and there are so many suffering out there. I have no answers just wanted to lend my support to you

This is an incredibly difficult situation, and I can’t imagine how difficult it’s been for you. Putting the wedding aside, you’re understandably worried for your parents; on the subject of the wedding, you’re not wrong or selfish for wanting a day where you and your partner come first. I think we all deserve that.

However, you do need to deal with reality. As things stand, you have two options. One is that your sibling comes and you take the fallout of their choice of dress, the toilet issue and so on. Two is that they don’t come, but you accept that your parents won’t either. There isn’t a magic option three where your sibling suddenly agrees to leave the wig and make-up at home and wear gender neutral beige. It isn’t going to happen. You’ve seen more than enough evidence of that. So there’s no value in trying to convince yourself it might.

I would stick with your already proposed solution of marrying abroad and having a celebration in the UK later. It might not be what you want, but I don’t see a way around it. You may feel a natural resentment towards your sibling for not agreeing to respite care, but alternatively, you could argue your parents haven’t fought hard enough to make it happen. There really aren’t any winners here.

I’m sorry you won’t get the day you want. I really hope you can have something that is still very special.

OP, you’ve had some good and some not so good responses on here and I’ll try to be kind when I respond.
A person can have an LD and be an obnoxious person. The two aren’t mutually exclusive. It sounds as though your brother is vulnerable to being influenced by others and I’d be tempted to question where it started, however, I haven’t had to live with him and have a childhood derailed by him. It’s okay to not feel able to even consider it.
You don’t say whether your parents have specific care and support needs themselves (my apologies if you’ve said this and I’ve missed it) but they are most certainly experiencing domestic abuse which has several concerning high risk features. His behaviour is escalating posing a risk to himself and others. If you feel able to, I would share all of this information with his Social Worker and the police. They may discuss at a multiagency conference - this isn’t a bad thing, it’s a way of managing risk and keeping your parents safe.
As to the wedding - do not invite him. You don’t owe him an invite. You don’t owe him a relocation and upending. This is a day for you and your husband-to-be to be surrounded by people who love you, care about you, and want to celebrate your joy with you, whilst you are the centre. Your brother is not in this group of people. I completely understand your feelings about your parents missing out but sadly this is a decision they need to make and, whilever they are experiencing this abuse, they will likely side with your brother’s desire to monopolise them. I hope you will still be able to enjoy your day. If you can, it’s worth a conversation with them to explain your feelings but only if it will help you.
There is nothing in your posts that makes me think your brother warrants detention under the MHA. It never hurts to explore, however, it’s not your job to do that. It sounds far more like he’s learned that behaving in this way gets him the attention he wants. LD or not, there are plenty of people with an LD who don’t manipulate others.
You speak of wanting to plan your future. OP you CANNOT and should not try to replace the role your parents are currently playing in the future. Is it desperately sad that your brother will likely end up in care? Yes, of course. Would it be equally desperately sad for you to sacrifice your own life for him? Absolutely. You don’t owe him OP, you have your own life and family to live and enjoy. None of this makes you a bad person ❤️

Trans women are at particular risk of serious violence from cis gender men

Sorry but there is absolutely no serious, genuine evidence that shows this.

and will take care with their clothing.

You're not aware that there are countless, countless photos, videos and family/friends/acquaintance testimony that many transwomen dress in very provocative clothes. Fear is not any inhibition for them. There are even trans 'babies' (grown adult males dressing in baby like clothes with a dummy and bib) and adult transwomen who dress in schoolgirl uniforms. And they go out in public like this.

There are high suicide and self harm rates for trans people.

The high suicide myth has been debunked by several organisations, including NHS itself. Suicide is most highest post-surgery.

Thank you so very much for your understanding!

I don't think you have any option but to not invite this person, but I'd like to know the following:

1. How will you tell everyone that they're not coming to the wedding? What do you think the responses will be and are you prepared for a meltdown?
2. Is your sibling able to read? How did they find out about trans?
3. Is your sibling an attention seeker?

YANBU to not invite your DB, he sounds thoroughly unsupportive and willing to ruin your wedding at the drop of a hat. Learning dis or no, the reality is deeply unmanageable and too much for you to bear on what ought to be a happy day full of promise.
At the start of you and your DHs lives together I would prioritise your relationship and your future together.

Aside from your wedding, I would also prepare myself for a hard no to becoming his carer/guardian in 5 or so years when your parents are too old and don’t have the energy anymore.

It is. They don't live in said Eastern European country so it is an overseas wedding.

What an absolute nightmare. There is no way in this world I would let him come to my wedding just because of what an unpleasant,self-centred and unreasonable person he has become since this trans thing (have a transgender child myself who gets rejected at every turn so my natural position is acceptance but your brother is being so disrespectful dressing like a pantomine dame)

Just have two weddings. Plenty of cultures and families do. Especially if cross cultural. Make the U.K. one smaller as might be easier to handle but try and make it just as important. Do it somewhere with a disabled toilet. If possible see if your mum can come to the Balkan one - if your sibling will be ok to stay with your dad. And don’t stress about it too much.

He's not just a social liability who could disrupt and ruin your day, OP, he's actively dangerous to himself and others. He held a knife to your dad, he left threatening notes in a public place, he self harms when anyone does something he doesn't like. He's not quirky or non conformist or even just a bit antisocial, he's an actual danger.

Perhaps it's not his fault but it's not yours either. You're not only not obliged to have such a dangerous and egregiously antisocial person there, I'd say you have a duty of care to your other guests who might be harmed or deeply distressed by him - not merely offended or affronted.

Have your day without him, with not a shred of guilt, and have a second party at home where you wear your outfits again (wearing your wedding dress twice is lovely!) and the setting can handle his needs.

They tend to be a reactive service. DD1 sees the LD psychologist every week, the nurse is working in the background and she sees the psychiatrist every few weeks, depending on what the psychologist feeds back to her. But, tbh, DD1 has been quite unwell, so she gets a more active service, which will reduce as she improves. She has 15 hours of social care approved, but will need to contribute to it.

You really didn’t need to start beating this drum. The OP has enough to content with.