To exclude sibling from wedding due to their lifestyle choice?

[Salitnan]

This will be incredibly identifying to anyone who knows my family and quite controversial but it’s such a bloody niche situation that nobody can relate to and it’s hugely stressing me out. I’m not writing this as ragebait or to troll, it is a genuine situation I am dealing with.

I’m getting married next year. My partner of 5 years is from a very traditional, right-wing Eastern European country. My partner however is very tolerant and chill, as are most of his immediate family who also live in Western countries.

We’ve decided to get married in his home country, as it’s very affordable there and we can have a beautiful package in an area of outstanding natural beauty, and he can invite his dear godparents who he adores (and they adore him) who are scared of flying.

This is all well and good but one of my family members is presenting an issue. My brother (who is an adult in their mid-20s) has a learning disability. This is not a problem, but in the past year they have come out as transgender. This has been a massive struggle for us as there were no signs previously and it came out of nowhere, and they have insisted they are going ahead with the transition and they self-harm if anyone misgenders them or politely reminds them of etiquette in public places regarding toilets, or wearing appropriate clothing for a social situation etc. It has been extremely hard work for my aging parents, he lives with them full time. The learning disability alongside being transgender makes them massively vulnerable and they get stared at in public and often started on when in the city centre by lads, and they aren’t aware of their vulnerability. They insist on dressing incredibly provocatively (wig and heels, provocative clothes) as they say they feel insecure otherwise, and when I have tried to explain to them that women don’t necessarily dress like that, they self-harm. They insult people in public, not to their face, they will say it to my mum (will whisper in her ear “he looks like a twat”), but sometimes people have overheard and started on him and my mum has had to explain about his disability and fend them off.

I’m already in therapy to deal with complex feelings towards them from how they dominate my parents lives and how I felt neglected as a child due to the focus on them and their vulnerabilities. The recent coming out as transgender has brought up a lot of old resentment I had towards him which I had buried, and I’m trying to have the therapy so that I can have a bond with him going forward, but I can’t help but feel a sort of anger at him, and I hate myself for it.

Back onto the wedding topic - I’ve realised I simply don’t want them at the wedding. My fiancé’s family are nice people and wouldn’t be a danger to my brother but many of my fiancé’s extended family members are from a small isolated village in a Catholic Eastern European country and he will be stared at like a hawk, whispered about. To he quite frank he will stick out like a sore thumb with his clothes and hair. As awful as it sounds I will be embarrassed by him and on edge, and won’t be able to enjoy my day. My partner says he’ll notify everyone in advance that my brother will be there and what to expect but I just really can’t be doing with the stress of it all. It’s not just family it’s the the staff in the hotel, other members of the public around who might be drinking, and they will need to stay in the country a few days around the ceremony so lots of opportunity for things to go wrong. They have severe social anxiety due to their learning disability and have been known to sneak alcohol as a way to deal with this and this further increases their vulnerability as they lose their filter and say their mind in front of people.

I did try to compromise and said to my mum I’d be happy to have them if if they would be willing to tone down their dress in order to come to the wedding - dropping the wig and toning down their clothes, but they have become angry at this suggestion and have refused.

I’ve told my mum it may be the case that I can’t invite them, and therefore my parents can’t come either as they are his carers. My mum says she understands and we can have a do later on back in the UK.

I just want my day to not be dominated by him. I also don’t want to have to change the wedding plans that me and my partner are happy with just to suit him. Am I an awful person?

What about the DB obsessed parents putting OP into an impossible situation about her own wedding? Go ahead OP with your own lovely choice of wedding, with people who love and appreciate you and want you to be at the centre of your own day with your fiance. This is about you and your marriage - everything else is peripheral, and you deserve to be relaxed and happy on your big day. Your DB would not be safe travelling or being in a foreign country with different culture and expectations. Rule it out - your parents can make their own decision about attending without him.

I feel so extremely sorry for you and your parents. I would never ever invite him to your wedding. You will not be able to enjoy your day and will be so stressed about it. I hate for you that your parents won’t be able to make it either since they care for him but as long as they don’t hold it against you, just celebrate with them when you’re home.

She has been honest that’s it why she’s not inviting him. It doesn’t mean that she would have her wedding in the UK were this not an issue.

Perhaps it's the insistence that he wears inappropriate clothes, or the insistence he uses the womens' bathroom (because he's scared in the mens - oh do fck off, many women are scared when there's a man in their personal space), or the fact he swears about people he doesn't like, or the fact he uses emotional manipulation to get his own way - if you don't do what want I'll hurt myself. etc

@Salitnan YADNBU. It must be extremely hard, I'm sorry. YANBU. Do the abroad wedding, enjoy. Then if you feel like it, have a smaller one back at home. You deserve it x

Eta - disabled toilets are for disabled people.

Enjoy your wedding without them/parents and have a small celebration on your return.
Don’t t feel bad - sometime circumstances are beyond your control and you have to decide what is best for everyone. It’s your wedding day you should be able to enjoy it.

1. Your post wasn't too long, some of us can read for longer than 10 seconds without getting bored.
2. I wouldn't even consider inviting this person to any event, let alone a wedding. It's (hopefully) a once-in-a-lifetime event and you have every right to make it entirely about you and entirely stress free.

Who you invite isn't about obligation. It's who you want there. And you can always have another party at home, with just them present. A blood relation doesn't mean you have to keep people you don't like in your circle.

I was referring to attitudes towards hid learning disabilities. Europe generally does have an outdated, backward approach to them.

Oddly, particularly Western Europe will have a more liberal approach to trans issues ( which I was not referencing) .But certainly not Eastern Europe, no.

No she is not, she knows this decision will exclude her parents, she had asked her sibling to tone down if he wants to go to her wedding abroad. Yet everything she says makes it clear that he will not behave well, that it will put her on edge and quite understandably she does not want him there. Be honest, its her wedding

Many people are offering advice. Best to let the OP decide.

Well said @KatherineParr

She has explicitly said there are multiple reasons why she wants her wedding abroad.

I’m not sure why you’re insisting that the only reason is her brother, and that she ‘needs to be honest’ about this.

You are not being unreasonable at all, you don't have to change your wedding to suit your brother. It doesn't sound as if he should be going to another country when he is unmanageable and likely to behave dangerously.

As well as the legal issues if he gets arrested, he may also end up being made subject to mental health laws of the country. Neither the police or mental health services are likely to be as tolerant of his behaviour as the UK.

If he isnt able to be challenged safely about his behaviour, and is self harming or physical then he cant go to the wedding.

I would also consider making a safeguarding referral for your parents after the wedding. As they get older, he is going to pose a risk to them and its not acceptable that he is self harming to get his own way. Just because he has a learning disability doesnt mean that he can behave as he wants.

As for the future, he isnt your responsibility to care for. And if he doesn't have the opportunity to learn to manage the self harming behaviour etc then his chance of living a happy life is reduced. Does he use the internet etc? Is this being managed appropriately, to make sure he doesn't get into trouble.

I just wanted to talk from the point of view of parents with adult children with physical and mental disabilities who display with what would be seen as anti-social behaviour. As a family, or indeed as a couple, we have never been invited anywhere by anyone. Not been to anyone's house for a meal, or a party or a wedding in 30 years. I do of course understand it is everyone's right to invite whoever they wish to their own celebrations and to their own home, so no hard feelings on my side. However when my daughter did marry it meant the absolute world that she did invite her brothers alongside us to her wedding. And of course meant (within their limited understanding) meant a lot to her brothers too. We also arranged some support workers to come along, so we could enjoy the day too. I'm not sure how I would have felt, or what I would have done had she not - probably arranged some sort of respite care (never used it before) but on her wedding day our priority would have been towards her. So I admit I feel very sad for the OP's parents despite believing the OP should have a worry free wedding.

‘Let’ her decide? As if she needs the permission of anyone here..?

Obviously it’s her choice.

I think the fact you recognise that you had to get support is an important point though.

The parents lack of willingness to engage remains a key part of the problem.

I think this is the opportunity to speak to your Mum about the future and what will happen when both her and your Dad are not around or able to care for your brother.

If she started looking into it now then maybe she could actually attend your wedding. Maybe you should ask her to put you first for once.

My Mum died really unexpectedly at 63, there is no guarantee that your parents will slide into a decline, sometimes it comes fast. If, God forbid, they were in a car accident tomorrow, what would happen to your brother?

This is the point, right now to get things sorted. I will tell you that my friend grew up with a brother who had learning difficulties and diagnosed with autism. Everything was done to accommodate him. Her parents' lives revolved around him as an adult and they, like yours, were miserable. Her parents both died within a few months of each other.

The absolute kicker? Her brother was forced to move out of the rented home that the parents never felt they could leave because it would be too much for their son. He moved into a flat, managed his own money, shopped successfully, did laundry, cleaned his place and lived his life. It nearly destroyed her to know he was so capable but hid behind his disability to get his own way all the time.

YANBU at all, OP; please don't feel guilty. You're not some wicked sister excluding their sibling because they're disabled. You're not even excluding them because of their lifestyle choice. You are excluding a rude, manipulative and physically large, violent man - who has held a knife to the throat of his own father and 'manhandled' his mother - from what should be a joyous family celebration. Worrying about who he'll harm and what sort of drama he will cause just to ruin your day is not how you should be spending your wedding day.

I am angry on your behalf at your parents. I understand that loving parents will do anything for their children, especially those that need extra support. But they should have planned for their old age. And they should provide equal support to you, which means not putting you in the position where they'll miss your wedding and you will end up feeling guilty (even though you shouldn't). They have the choice to hire support, even temporarily, so that they can attend your wedding.

If they drink to drop their inhibitions and dress in a ridiculously outrageous and degrading fashion, then yes; they are too embarrassing for social events.

I'm a family-oriented person, but I don't believe any one person should be allowed to dominate every space or ruin someone's wedding, as a matter of course.

Unfortunately for OP's parents, they've enabled this behaviour to the point they are not allowed to be away from her brother; and this is the consequence. They can have a celebration separately.

What a hideous situation. You are completely justified in not inviting him to your wedding because the transgender nonsense is just manipulative bullshit. And you must not take over his care from your parents. Really they should be looking towards transitioning him to a care home situation now. They won’t be able to look after him into old age. I know it’s really sad but it’s the only reasonable outcome. Your poor mum and dad, I feel for them but this has hugely impacted your life too. Enjoy your lovely wedding OP.

If you decided to go ahead and have the wedding abroad, this could be the wake up call for your DPs to accept that they do need help to manage their DS’s condition. It still may mean they don’t come to your wedding but they must realise you cannot realistically invite your DB and as they are unable/unwilling to do what is necessary to be able to attend, the penny may drop.

And on a flippant lighter note, if you do one wedding abroad and one in UK, the bonus is you get to wear your dress twice!

Yes. It is possible to be sympathetic to the op's feelings whilst at the same time feel sympathy for her parents that how by choosing the <scenic> faraway venue that means her own parents will have to miss their dd's wedding.

If were the op I'd have approached it completely differently from the off and involved my dm in a workable solution instead of prioritising her dp's rels who are only scared of flying as opposed to having LD.

Indeed. My point entirely.

He sounds absolutely awful - and not because of his learning disability, because of his manipulative bullying.

Your parents are going to have to face the fact that they aren't going to be able to manage him as they get older, particularly as he's already ramping up violence against your parents.

I think you should contact social services and your parents GP with concerns of elder abuse.

And make it clear to your parents that you won't be responsible for him when they're not capable anymore, it might help them realise that some sort of sheltered housing is needed, better to get in place sooner than later.

And you shouldn't feel that you have to support him or even see him - he's not your responsibility at all.

And for those commentators saying she should put her mother first and have the wedding in the UK - the OP has said that her mum herself suggested that she wouldn't go, but would stay home with her son. So why try to guilt trip the OP.

I'm sure if her mum wanted to go the OPs father could stay home with his son - or her father might really want to walk her down the aisle, so maybe he should go, with mum at home.

are social workers / gps aware of the escalation of violence - if someone can hold a butter knife to someone’s neck and that’s brushed under the carpet I would worry about next steps.

this, the fact your parents are hiding this level of violence is terrifying. I wouldn’t visit them in his presence again, if you choose to have kids, they’re basically saying they’d never see them, how could you let a vulnerable baby/child be around them, and I couldn’t trust your parents to protect the baby over his demands.

You sound a bit mean and judgemental. If it was my wedding I would want to be as far from the troublesome brother as I could get. If parents choose not to arrange respite care so that they can come that’s on them