To exclude sibling from wedding due to their lifestyle choice?

[Salitnan]

This will be incredibly identifying to anyone who knows my family and quite controversial but it’s such a bloody niche situation that nobody can relate to and it’s hugely stressing me out. I’m not writing this as ragebait or to troll, it is a genuine situation I am dealing with.

I’m getting married next year. My partner of 5 years is from a very traditional, right-wing Eastern European country. My partner however is very tolerant and chill, as are most of his immediate family who also live in Western countries.

We’ve decided to get married in his home country, as it’s very affordable there and we can have a beautiful package in an area of outstanding natural beauty, and he can invite his dear godparents who he adores (and they adore him) who are scared of flying.

This is all well and good but one of my family members is presenting an issue. My brother (who is an adult in their mid-20s) has a learning disability. This is not a problem, but in the past year they have come out as transgender. This has been a massive struggle for us as there were no signs previously and it came out of nowhere, and they have insisted they are going ahead with the transition and they self-harm if anyone misgenders them or politely reminds them of etiquette in public places regarding toilets, or wearing appropriate clothing for a social situation etc. It has been extremely hard work for my aging parents, he lives with them full time. The learning disability alongside being transgender makes them massively vulnerable and they get stared at in public and often started on when in the city centre by lads, and they aren’t aware of their vulnerability. They insist on dressing incredibly provocatively (wig and heels, provocative clothes) as they say they feel insecure otherwise, and when I have tried to explain to them that women don’t necessarily dress like that, they self-harm. They insult people in public, not to their face, they will say it to my mum (will whisper in her ear “he looks like a twat”), but sometimes people have overheard and started on him and my mum has had to explain about his disability and fend them off.

I’m already in therapy to deal with complex feelings towards them from how they dominate my parents lives and how I felt neglected as a child due to the focus on them and their vulnerabilities. The recent coming out as transgender has brought up a lot of old resentment I had towards him which I had buried, and I’m trying to have the therapy so that I can have a bond with him going forward, but I can’t help but feel a sort of anger at him, and I hate myself for it.

Back onto the wedding topic - I’ve realised I simply don’t want them at the wedding. My fiancé’s family are nice people and wouldn’t be a danger to my brother but many of my fiancé’s extended family members are from a small isolated village in a Catholic Eastern European country and he will be stared at like a hawk, whispered about. To he quite frank he will stick out like a sore thumb with his clothes and hair. As awful as it sounds I will be embarrassed by him and on edge, and won’t be able to enjoy my day. My partner says he’ll notify everyone in advance that my brother will be there and what to expect but I just really can’t be doing with the stress of it all. It’s not just family it’s the the staff in the hotel, other members of the public around who might be drinking, and they will need to stay in the country a few days around the ceremony so lots of opportunity for things to go wrong. They have severe social anxiety due to their learning disability and have been known to sneak alcohol as a way to deal with this and this further increases their vulnerability as they lose their filter and say their mind in front of people.

I did try to compromise and said to my mum I’d be happy to have them if if they would be willing to tone down their dress in order to come to the wedding - dropping the wig and toning down their clothes, but they have become angry at this suggestion and have refused.

I’ve told my mum it may be the case that I can’t invite them, and therefore my parents can’t come either as they are his carers. My mum says she understands and we can have a do later on back in the UK.

I just want my day to not be dominated by him. I also don’t want to have to change the wedding plans that me and my partner are happy with just to suit him. Am I an awful person?

Just have two weddings. One there and one in the UK.

My sibling got married to someone from a similar kind of country. And one that's not so easy to get to (and don't like the UK much either) and is really not so easy to get around either. So they did a wedding there and a wedding in the UK. Worked out very well. .

And they are overwhelmingly in support of the Op. have you read it?

Monty36 · Today 16:15
The reality I am afraid is that many European attitudes around disability would often shock people in the UK. They can often have backward attitudes towards it. Very backward.

You call it backward, I call it saying it how it is. I think the UK has bent itself so far in accepting the craziness that we find ourselves in, that it in in danger of walking with a permanent stoop.

I remember a few years ago adults forcing children/young adults to accept and be kind to other kids who said they identified as cats. Then reading how schoolkids were kicking the "cat" in their school down the school steps.

Fortunately, this "animal identifying" craziness seems to have abated somewhat over the last couple of years. I see with my younger DC the tide turning and they are not as accepting of men pretending they are women/ people pretending to be animals as middle-aged people are trying to be.

And that is fair, but explain that. Don't say the issue is the traditional country that she chose in the full knowledge they would not be able to attend.

They need to stop pussyfooting around the issue. Her parents are scared, she is avoidant (for totally understandable reasons) and they are all afraid of the sibling. Outside help is needed now because they shouldn't be struggling like this and 3 other lives should not be destroyed because he is not getting the help he needs (whether he wants it or not).

I’ve read most of it and there are some people
commenting telling her to be kind.

Yes, same for me.

OP, you know your wedding is highly likely to be spoiled if he’s there. I’m usually all for having everyone there, including children, but this sounds like a very extreme situation. Your mum is understanding, although it is disappointing that he always appears to be centred by your parents. There’s not much you can do about that, so have a lovely day abroad and do something with your family when you’re back.

This will probably get deleted but he needs sectioning. When he's having a self harm strop just call ambulance and let them deal with him. Your parents should say they can't cope anymore and he's their problem now.

He's obviously not that iq deprived from what you've told us. Just a manipulative dickhead who wants to cosplay as Dame Edna.

Let's be really honest about the dynamics here.

If she did choose the UK, the parents would expect the brother to go to or he will turn up or have a meltdown right before it which will stop the parents attending anyway in some capacity.

If he attends, the risk of it ending in a situation which is liable to at least cause extreme distress to the OP and damage her relationships with her in-laws is extremely high.

Given there is a history of self harm and violence against others this is a serious consideration for the OP. She has to safeguard herself, her other relationships, her parents and her brother.

Frankly getting married abroad without him will solve the dilemma in the broadest sense. Even if her parents don't like not recognise this.

But overwhelmingly in support of the Op.

backer to by 91% poll

You're not being unreasonably at all. Your brother would completely dominate your wedding, by his behaviour and dress sense/styling. It's your wedding and you should be able to enjoy your day. Many Eastern European countries are conservative, and him wearing over-the-top women's clothing, when he looks male, will draw attention. There could be legal issues too, as I don't think wearing a wig and heels is going to give him reason enough to use the ladies toilets etc. It's possible the police could be called, and he's arrested.

Even if your partner forewarned his extended family, it's members of the public, staff at the wedding venue etc, who could be offended and inform the authorities, especially if his behaviour is obnoxious, and not very pleasant.

Have a celebration at home, once you're back. If your parents feel they can't leave your brother, and can't come to the wedding, then so be it.

She also clearly wants little to do with her brother. ‘Supporting her mother’ runs counter to achieving that.

I’m advising her that it’s worth examining whether she wants to support her parents because she actually wants to, or because it’s been ingrained in her that she not only should want to, but has a duty to. Waking away can cause unhappiness and problems, yes, but staying could cause more.

OP should make the choice that’s right for her, her husband, and the life they’re building. Not the choice that’s right for her parents and brother.

I think you should include your sibling and leave any possible repercussions for them to deal with. Not your responsibility.

Her parents couldn't attend the UK wedding because they are her brother's carers!

Errrr it's your failure to get the point of the ops posts not my inability to explain things that's an issue here.

The OP actually doesn't have much of a choice as far as I can see it. Not if she wants to do the best by everyone. This doesnt mean that everyone gets everything they want - the situation doesn't allow for it.

Having a wedding abroad may be in the best interests of her parents and sibling ultimately whether or not they recognise this.

The last thing they want is a fight to break out at the wedding in either the UK or abroad. That would make everything worse AND ruin the OPs wedding.

I would have a registry office blessing with your parents and brother the day before and then fly out and have the whole shebang.

And at no point have I disagreed with this, but be honest about it, don't dress it up in a tale about it being a conservative traditional country.

It is YOUR special day and you don't get a chance to do it again if things go wrong. You don't deserve to have your day disrupted which is highly likely with your brother in such a volatile state.

I would suggest you have your day abroad then when you return you have a special meal with your parents and brother. Hope it all works well for you. Enjoy your day.

It's not your brother's fault that society has lost its mind over trans issues. Despite the fact your whole family revolves around his needs and wants, I imagine deep down he feels quite powerles. Adopting a trans identity gives a person an incredible power to control the adults around them, because of course it is social death (and potentially worse) to disagree with anything trans. This is a common motivation with vulnerable children who come out as trans.

Life is really hard for people with disabilities, and it sounds as if his needs are high, as your parents still care for him. Ironically, "inclusion" used to be about disabilities but it's much easier and cheaper for companies and services to concentrate on trans issues these days. Your brother has been badly let down, by society, and by the activists who sell trans ideology to vulnerable people.

All of this notwithstanding, life is extremely hard for siblings in your position too! No way would I have him at my wedding, regardless of how much I felt for him and understood him to be the victim in this scenario. You fully deserve to have an occasion where he is, for once, not the centre of attention. It's a sad situation all around OP. You're wise to start therapy. Good luck.

You are missing the point, she needs to be honest about why she is getting married abroad and stop avoiding the issue.

Lost the post I was quoting: There's a limited amount OP can do to get help if the parents and brother won't engage. We see all the time that adult social services are called to help with elderly parents but leave without doing nothing, because the parents say that everything is fine and they don't need help. She can't sort this out for them without the parents admitting that they can't cope and there is a problem. I'm not sure from OP's posts that they are ready to do this.

I feel so dreadfully sorry for you OP. What a nightmare situation- a manipulative violent person who makes it all about him. Transing is a symptom of this.

your poor parents too maybe they’ve not helped by being too soft on him over the years but they now have this nightmare situation to deal with.

i don’t see any benefit to including him in your wedding, he sounds like he would cause stress for you and your parents as well as potentially other guests even if he chose to behave well, and as you can’t rely on that the wedding would be stressful at best.

would he actually gain anything from attending the wedding in any case, does he want to attend.

are social workers / gps aware of the escalation of violence - if someone can hold a butter knife to someone’s neck and that’s brushed under the carpet I would worry about next steps.

you need to make sure that everyone is clear that you are not taking over as carer when your parents are no longer able to do, you deserve to live your life with a family of your own.

I completely agree with this.

you enjoy yourself OP. Sounds like you’ve earned it

Exclude him. I cannot see one reason why your wedding day should be spoilt by this man’s shenanigans I certainly wouldnkt have him there and he sounds so unstable that apart from his bizarre and offensive appearance he may cause a scene which will be unpleasant for everyone there.
it sad about your parents but they are right you can have another celebration on your return.
it’s perfectly possible to feel sad about the delusions your brother experiences and the burden he is to your parents without allowing your natural sadness to spoil every aspect of your life. It’s your wedding day, put you and your husband to be first.

So if that is her line of thought, she needs to be honest about it, no shame in that. Its a difficult situation with no easy outcome but don't dress it up as something it isn't. The sibling sounds to be struggling/confused enough. The OP can't cope with them at the wedding, she wants her day without worries and concerns. That's a difficult discussion but have it.

Some people are suggesting a ceremony or celebration in each country, but that will be difficult for her too on the grounds you have stated. So she needs to be honest. Maybe it will be the catalyst her parents need to get the support they need for her sibling.

What an awful situation, OP. For you and your parents.
I don’t think you should change your wedding plans. I think that actually, JUST this once, your parents should prioritise you and leave your brother at home. Obviously I don’t know the specifics of your situation but I’m presuming there are other agencies involved, this could be arranged.
Has anyone spoke to your brother about what will happen when his parents are too old to care for him or when they aren’t here any
ore? What does he think about this?
Dont change your wedding to suit anyone. This is an entirely unique situation and I think you’d hugely regret loving the wedding to the U.K.