To exclude sibling from wedding due to their lifestyle choice?

[Salitnan]

This will be incredibly identifying to anyone who knows my family and quite controversial but it’s such a bloody niche situation that nobody can relate to and it’s hugely stressing me out. I’m not writing this as ragebait or to troll, it is a genuine situation I am dealing with.

I’m getting married next year. My partner of 5 years is from a very traditional, right-wing Eastern European country. My partner however is very tolerant and chill, as are most of his immediate family who also live in Western countries.

We’ve decided to get married in his home country, as it’s very affordable there and we can have a beautiful package in an area of outstanding natural beauty, and he can invite his dear godparents who he adores (and they adore him) who are scared of flying.

This is all well and good but one of my family members is presenting an issue. My brother (who is an adult in their mid-20s) has a learning disability. This is not a problem, but in the past year they have come out as transgender. This has been a massive struggle for us as there were no signs previously and it came out of nowhere, and they have insisted they are going ahead with the transition and they self-harm if anyone misgenders them or politely reminds them of etiquette in public places regarding toilets, or wearing appropriate clothing for a social situation etc. It has been extremely hard work for my aging parents, he lives with them full time. The learning disability alongside being transgender makes them massively vulnerable and they get stared at in public and often started on when in the city centre by lads, and they aren’t aware of their vulnerability. They insist on dressing incredibly provocatively (wig and heels, provocative clothes) as they say they feel insecure otherwise, and when I have tried to explain to them that women don’t necessarily dress like that, they self-harm. They insult people in public, not to their face, they will say it to my mum (will whisper in her ear “he looks like a twat”), but sometimes people have overheard and started on him and my mum has had to explain about his disability and fend them off.

I’m already in therapy to deal with complex feelings towards them from how they dominate my parents lives and how I felt neglected as a child due to the focus on them and their vulnerabilities. The recent coming out as transgender has brought up a lot of old resentment I had towards him which I had buried, and I’m trying to have the therapy so that I can have a bond with him going forward, but I can’t help but feel a sort of anger at him, and I hate myself for it.

Back onto the wedding topic - I’ve realised I simply don’t want them at the wedding. My fiancé’s family are nice people and wouldn’t be a danger to my brother but many of my fiancé’s extended family members are from a small isolated village in a Catholic Eastern European country and he will be stared at like a hawk, whispered about. To he quite frank he will stick out like a sore thumb with his clothes and hair. As awful as it sounds I will be embarrassed by him and on edge, and won’t be able to enjoy my day. My partner says he’ll notify everyone in advance that my brother will be there and what to expect but I just really can’t be doing with the stress of it all. It’s not just family it’s the the staff in the hotel, other members of the public around who might be drinking, and they will need to stay in the country a few days around the ceremony so lots of opportunity for things to go wrong. They have severe social anxiety due to their learning disability and have been known to sneak alcohol as a way to deal with this and this further increases their vulnerability as they lose their filter and say their mind in front of people.

I did try to compromise and said to my mum I’d be happy to have them if if they would be willing to tone down their dress in order to come to the wedding - dropping the wig and toning down their clothes, but they have become angry at this suggestion and have refused.

I’ve told my mum it may be the case that I can’t invite them, and therefore my parents can’t come either as they are his carers. My mum says she understands and we can have a do later on back in the UK.

I just want my day to not be dominated by him. I also don’t want to have to change the wedding plans that me and my partner are happy with just to suit him. Am I an awful person?

OP I really feel for you. You want to have the wedding you've dreamed of with your parents present, but you can't because of your brother's complex needs. No solution will fix that. I can see that your parents are important to you, but they are in a no-win situation. They are so used to putting your brother's needs first that they are ground down by it.

Please don't ask them to find respite care for him so that they can attend your wedding; it will be simply too stressful for them. This isn't the time to be putting that in place. That is for the near future, when no time constraints are in play.

I think that all you can do is have the wedding of your dreams without guilt, invite your mum and dad, but accept their decision if they say they can't attend. Then have a blessing and a family meal out on home turf later on.

In the future, your parents will need a lot of support to have your brother assessed and get some respite/find suitable housing. They deserve to have a life, and your brother deserves to be safe and secure.

Good luck, OP, and have a wonderful wedding day. You deserve it.

Why would you even need to use ‘he’ in his presence though? Surely if you’re talking to him you use ‘you’ and if you’re talking to someone else about him in his presence you’d use his name?

Honest answer here.

Family issues were why I didn't have any at my wedding. It was both sides of the family for different reasons. And included my brother who had declared himself trans. The stress and anxiety of the whole thing was too much for me.

I will raise another point here. An element of how you are feeling is there is a huge pressure on siblings to accept without question. This is not ok.

Why? Well this idea forces us to tolerate behaviour that if it came from anyone else we would not excuse. You are allowed to have your own feelings and you are allowed to say this behaviour is not ok and is affecting my mental health.

This is a really taboo area. However from what I know and understand mental health related issues in close relatives of trans people are potentially higher than the general population. This hasn't been researched but it should be as it's significant if true. Transition may have significant mental health impact on others. Indeed the one piece of evidence which raises the question was a long since buried survey from one of the older transgender support groups which found rates of breakdown in the wives of men who transitioned were through the roof. This is a massively overlooked area. So my point here is to be kind to yourself and you are ok to look after yourself if you need to. You should not feel guilty or pressure for this.

Second of all, I think in terms of siblings there's other issues that get over looked. Not all siblings get on all the time in other circumstances. Just because your sibling declares themselves trans doesn't mean you have any more of an obligation to like them or spend time with them as an adult that you did before. If you didn't get on with them, why should you suddenly be forced to put in more effort in some way?

Transition of a sibling changes the power dynamics in a family and this is difficult to explain and describe to others not in the same situation. Your identity is affected. Identity formation isn't something that is just about you. You have identity as an individual but you identity as part of a family unit is also something that is fundamental to who we are - families that lose a member through tragedy suffer from trauma. What someone declaring themselves as trans does also affects how you see yourself, how you relate to the world and how fit into the family.

For example when we talk about families with others in polite conversation we might ask "have you got any brothers or sisters?" Because we are looking for common ground and a way to relate to others. Birth order also matters in this. If you are the eldest child and oldest daughter this is effectively different to being the middle child of three sisters or the youngest child of five and having one sister and two brothers. I can't relate to someone who has sisters because that's not my life experience. And it complicates having to answer the polite question of "do you have any brother or sisters?" Because you have to read the situation, make a conscious decision about how you answer and how that might impact how you relate to others or how they may relate to you. You might not be comfortable to say you have a sister because you set yourself up to either have to play along with relating to someone having a sister or explain the situation in full in a way which ultimately goes into politics when you don't know someone well enough to navigate that. Personally I have reached the point where it does serve my mental health to lie. I say I have a brother who is trans and it's complicated and we have a difficult relationship that was already difficult prior to transition.

One of the things I found hard is my brother looks not unlike me, and it was rather like looking through a twisted mirror at him. His mannerisms were off and his proportions were off and there's an element of uncanny valley before you even discuss poor choices of attire (which is often not right for figures or appropriate for the situation). He knew this too and there was a huge factor about his jealousy towards me (which goes back to regular siblings relationships and difficulties with that).

If you want the beautiful bride wedding and you are worrying constantly about being upstaged by dress or behaviour, it's as understandable as any other difficult family relationship - whether that be a family member with a drink issue or a family member who has particularly offensive views. It is going to cause anxiety and stress and it's ok to be honest about this.

I think over the years, I have learnt it is ok to not feel guilty and to forgive myself for not being a dutiful ally. This wasn't in my best interests mentally for a variety of reasons. I am allowed to put my own mental health first. Think of it as putting your own oxygen mask first.

My brother's issues are not mine to take responsibility for nor to fix. They are his to deal with. He can't be a woman. If I could wave a magic wand and make it happen I would because he would be happier. He is trans and a male. And will only ever be able to be trans and male even with all the love in the world. Pretending differently doesn't help anyone.

Fine your own peace with it. You do not have an obligation to anyone ultimately. Yes it might affect your relationship but all manner of other things could affect your relationship with your siblings. You do not have to like your siblings. Many people don't. This is fine. You don't have to make a special effort purely because someone is trans.

It is NOT the same as being gay (see above points about identity and self, power dynamics and control within a family by demands over pronouns etc). They ARE NOT the same person they always were - how they expect you to treat them and relate to them have changed and often become demands - which can be coercive, manipulative and seeped in emotional blackmail. Again you have a choice about how you respond to this change - remembering that oxygen mask.

It is a situation that is extremely difficult for anyone who isn't in it , to fully appreciate it. You are not a bad person if you decide you can't continue to have a close relationship with them. You simply just don't get on with your sibling.

I take the attitude that if someone wasn't trans would I tolerate the same behaviour? If the answer is no, then it is reasonable to have a boundary and say no this is not ok with me.

I wouldn't invite him in your situation. I would expect a tantrum over it. But I would just get on with any fall out this causes because I matter just as much.

There are no 'right ways' to navigate the situation. Don't let anyone tell you differently.

This is only natural, OP, but again, what are your parents expecting to happen when they can no longer care for him?

They may not have created the situation but they're certainly facilitating it, and I'm not sure ignoring the need to plan "because of what he might do" is helping anyone

Then again, since he's now escalated to physical violence, I wonder if police involvement may be the way forward, perhaps with the possibility of a move?

I don't blame you for not wanting him there. It would be very stressful for you and your parents. Enjoy your wedding and try not to worry about them.

He can't go then.

He won't cope. The end.

Do you think that not bowing down to someone whose delusion is so ingrained that they believe they’re the opposite sex and anyone who challenges that is subjected to abuse and violence is ‘intolerance’?

This sounds so bloody hard @Salitnan .

Rather, your brother sounds bloody hard.

You and your parents need to use the wedding issue as a motivator to come up with a decent plan that supports them and supports him both now and in the future.

Are adult social care involved at all? It sounds like his needs have recently changed with the trans decision, and as such, they need to do a (re) assessment.

And of course have your wedding without your brother. It's the right decision.

All the best.

Quite a few people I know that have foreign destination weddings have a small registry office do here first to formalise legalities. Could you do that and involve your family here and then have your big do in your partner's country with his family and anyone else who wants to travel.

Same story isn’t, the tolerance and kindness is a one way street!

Possibly it does trump it - because (through no fault of their own) her parents have never been able to put her needs first, and this is her own chance to do that for herself. He new DH having important people in his life there matters more to her than her parents being there. That’s ok. It’s her decision.

I have split feelings about this. I too have an older disabled sibling who my parent focused on for my entire life and I have some issues with this. I don't think its asking too much to ask him to tone down his behaviour for your wedding and if he loved you, its something he should do. I know there isn't any easy answer here.

I don’t think you’re awful, but I also don’t think this is solely about your sibling. You’ve already said: “I’ve told my mum it may be the case that I can’t invite them, and therefore my parents can’t come either as they are his carers.”
That tells me you know your parents can’t attend a wedding abroad, with or without your sibling. So the real decision you’ve made, consciously or not, is to prioritise your fiancé’s godparents over your own parents. That’s not immoral, but it is a choice, and it’s worth being honest with yourself about it.

You also say one of the reasons for choosing your partner’s country is:
“He can invite his dear godparents who he adores… who are scared of flying.”
But that same logic applies to your parents: they can’t travel either, because they can’t leave your sibling. So the venue choice effectively excludes your entire immediate family before you even get to the issue of your sibling’s behaviour. They will realise and understand this.

Your sibling’s situation is clearly very difficult for you and I say that as someone who understands the “glass child” dynamic. But the truth is that many of the problems you’re now anticipating were baked in the moment you chose a traditional, conservative country for the wedding. That decision risk‑managed your sibling out of the event long before any conversation about wigs or outfits.
You’re not wrong to want a peaceful wedding day. But it’s also fair to acknowledge that you’ve created a set of circumstances where your sibling and your parents were never realistically going to be able to attend. That doesn’t make you a monster, it just means the situation is more complex than “my sibling will cause a scene”.

Parents should raise their child to lead the life they want and so there is nothing wrong with making your own wedding choices but be honest about how and when you made those choices and why! Your family will know and you may talk about your sibling wanting to dress up in wigs, but you are dressing this situation up as a problem with your transgender sibling in a very traditional country, when you created that element of the issue in the first place. Call a spade, a spade and be honest about it.

Which ever way you jump there will be issues and I can truly sympathise that for once as the "glass child" you want this to be about you and how you want it to be without worrying about other people. I struggled with similar dynamics for my wedding (although different issues).

I do wish you all the happiness in the world and whatever you decide, enjoy the day.

@Salitnan

You are entitled to have the wedding you want, period. You are entitled to NOT invite any person who may disrupt that wedding regardless of why, period.

But I would like to gently suggest that at some point in the not too distant future you and your new DH have a serious discussion about your sibling's future care needs. After you are married, this is not a decision you should make on your own as what you decide may affect your DH, not to mention any children you may have. Once you and he have decided what you will or will not do, you need to sit your parents down and have a frank discussion where you lay out what you are willing to do or that you will not have any caring responsibilities. I know this sounds scary and difficult, but it is not fair on your parents to have "I'm not going to do XYZ" dumped on them when that time comes. And I guarantee you that at this point they are expecting you to step in and take over, to the extent of him living with you. They need to be able to figure out now what they will do when that time comes and how any care will be financed. Otherwise, your sibling will be your responsibility whether you like it or not.

I think your parents should be able to come nuts not on for your brother to dictate that they can’t attend your wedding because he “can’t be left”.

Not everything is about him.

This isn't as simple as a trans issue, if it was I'd be a 100% behind the op.

Her sibling has challenging behaviour due to his LD. The wig and lippy is irrelevant.

Yes course she can have her scenic wedding in a faraway country and forget he exists or, she could consider her parents in all this and try to do something that doesn't exclude him completely.

To be honest most people wouldn’t want your brother at a British Wedding either if they ate confrontational.
Just have the wedding without him and your parents.

It's not 'rude' or 'intolerant' to not want to tolerate a violent male who puts knives to people's throats! It's basic safety.

Why is this a bad habit?

I struggled for a long time to find what I was ok and comfortable with and what didn't cause issues.

I ended up not speaking to my parents for a long time over their behaviour and enabling of my brother and his partners unacceptable behaviour.

I didn't think it was ok to put my son through that.

I speak to my parents now, but we never talk about him. They understand if they want a relationship with me and my son then it's off limits and it's none negotiable. I am not prepared to walk on eggshells and have a toxic relationship.

I know you feel responsibility to your brother, but ultimately it is ok for you to say no if you don't feel able to cope with it when the time comes. This is a situation I may be in line for too but have already actively made a decision that I will not be a carer and I have discussed with my parents so they can plan for this in this other persons best interests.

You have other responsibilities to other people. And one to yourself. You can't help and always please everyone as well as keeping yourself sane all the time.

You poor thing, I don’t blame you at all for your feelings, tbh I wouldn’t like him either, sibling or not. I have a very complex relationship with my brothers due to other reasons but much is rooted in my families’ constant brushing under the carpet and minimising their behaviour constantly. It’s led to endless arguments, and honestly if my brothers weren’t around, my family experience would be amazing, we are a close, kind, generous, and happy family unit without them considered. Get married in your partners country, don’t invite him, if that means your parents don’t come then so be it. It sounds they have enabled much of his behaviour also, sorry if that offends but they have. So they must take responsibility for their actions, and that means not coming to their daughter’s wedding.

I hope you have the magical day you dream of! And also, you are NOT obliged to care for him once your parents are unable, your life and happiness is as important as his (more so because it’s YOUR life), and with him in your life you would be miserable. Xx

Your parents urgently need some outside support. Some people are saying they have enabled him and that may to some extent be true but it’s not easy to deal with a large person who will self harm and push you around if you challenge them even mildly. It sounds as if he could do real harm to himself or someone else if pushed. Please tell your parents to both see their GP and ask Social Services for a Carers assessment. It’s easy to throw around judgement when you aren’t in a situation like this.

These ‘small minded people’ are her husband’s family, so why would he want to prioritize OP’s sibling, that she doesn’t even particularly like, over them?

OP has also had to pay the proverbial price for her sibling being as he is, with her childhood revolving around him. Why should her wedding revolve around
him too?

You know your brother isn’t safe to travel to your wedding destination, regardless of his attendance at the event. As his carers, that means your parents are excluded from the wedding. That makes your decision unreasonable. Picking the location so the godparents could easily attend should not be more important than your own parents.

as for your brother on the actual day, would you be ok with him elsewhere? Not conforming to social norms in dress is not a problem. Men can wear dresses. In some ways his gender identity is irrelevant. What matters is his actual behavior. How will he act on the wedding day? How will he react if he does get negative feedback on being inappropriately dressed for a wedding?

Would it be possible to have him attend briefly and then leave with a planned calm exit? Excluding a sibling is a big deal.

He’s a disrupter determined to deregulate all and sundry on his sister’s special day. It’s not happening bro. Soz.

Well your mum seems to understand and be okay with it so I’d go with it.

She clearly said the LD wasn’t a problem.