To disagree with home ed

[Freshton]

Unless in extreme cases (ie SEN, extreme mental health or other complex needs) or parent is qualified teacher, I fundamentally disagree with home ed.

It's insular and doesn't prepare kids for the real world.

I've seen first hand some shocking examples that I can't go into for confidentiality reasons but common thread was parents arrogantly assumed they had same skills as teachers with masters degrees. Reality was kids were really behind, had no proper structure or routine.

It's worrying that so many people see home ed as a viable lifestyle choice. I know school system not perfect at all but isolating children at home or in small home ed group echo chambers isn't healthy.

I completely disagree. I think home ed can be fantastic for a child. There are plenty of ways children will learn social skills through hobbies/camps etc.

I love the idea of world schooling. Travelling around, showing the World, real life experience is far better than being stuck in a class room all day.

'Behind' is subjective. You can't compare apples and oranges. How was their mental health, curiosity for learning, quality of life?

I was a teacher in a school for girls. There was minimum embarrassment and of course we let the children go in that kind of situation. The problem is not the child and the emergency which of course we dealt with as kindly, sympathetically and low level as possible. Very few boundaries were pushed. The school kept emergency supplies for girls long before it was a thing.
The problem in the friend (s) that instantly wants to go as well, or the child that's been in the lesson literally 5 minutes and needs to go or the idiots messing around and vaping etc-or so I gather. It's very difficult and I don't know the answer. No one wants a child in distress and no one wants vandalism and vaping in the toilets either.
I'm extremely pro single sex toilets in mixed schools btw. Girls need privacy. No doubt boys do too.

I mostly agree with your main point, but can I take you up on this:

"...teachers with masters degrees"

If you think that most (or even a large proportion) of teachers have masters degrees then you are mistaken.

By the way, a PGCE is not a masters degree.

So if it is done well, or there is no other option you are fine with it?

You are not being unreasonable.

I suppose what you think of as fine might seem unreasonable to some.

The problem is, the school system isn’t fit for everyone and because of lack of funding schools are large and lack the ability to tailor learning to individuals.
In my opinion, the answer is smaller schools. My older two went to large schools and one did ok but the other really didn’t. We then moved to rural Scotland and he was in a school of just 15 children which meant he left primary a year ahead when previously he’d been two years behind.

My youngest goes to that school now and is far ahead of where he would be in a larger school. The teachers have time to tailor learning to each child who can learn at their pace rather than within a specified age group.

But they are slowly closing the rural schools here and one day ours will close too. If I had remained in England, I would not have sent my youngest back to school after the pandemic. School there was not working for him.

DCs' old school was outstanding with the best results in the county. Oversubscribed, massively overcrowded site of 1500 kids. All girls' loos have been made gender neutral except one tiny set far away in the science block. Locks get smashed in the gender neutral loos and not replaced so the girls hate to use them, plus they are locked up apart from the 30 mins break and lunch when a teacher is posted outside them. My boy was too scared to use either gender neutral loos or the boys. Most of them stop drinking and try to get through the school day without having to use a loo. My DC had a 40 min walk and a bladder condition so this was not an option. Even with a toilet pass, asking to use it in a world where everyone knows toilet access is severely policed is embarrassing ("ooh what's wrong with you?") and it takes ages & is embarrassing to go to get the member of staff to unlock the loos for you and wait while you use them.

This has got nothing to do with what KS1 children can do, it's about these extra barriers. Plus presumably the state of the loos that have made these Draconian measures necessary.

Absolutely grim. So sorry.

It really depends on the definition of behind doesn't it. By year 11 there is such a variety range of abilities. Are the school kids who will scrape a 3 behind a child who will achieve a 7+?

Is one of my kids school friends 'behind' even though he's about to sit maths GCSE for the 5th and last time with a good place at university to study something more inline with his strengths?

I would say behind would mean not reaching minimum standards for the year, so if they're able to get a pass they're not behind. Bit harder to define in the uk school system where there's such a large range within a year group than in a system with yearly levels to pass to proceed.

So the secondary school my daughter would have gone to, their Ofsted report remarked that 60% of pupils enter the school with reading ability below expected levels. 60% of pupils enter the school 'behind'. This tallies with my experience of comprehensive school.

My 2 are Home Educated and I am perfectly capable of teaching them Shakespeare (degrees in literature and languages) and algebra (a level). My uncle has a phd in biology my cousin in IT (not going to be more specific due to nature of his job) and my Dad in Chemistry, that’s a lot of bases covered to begin with. One Mum of my just turned 11 year old’s friends however texted me outraged in October that her son was being expected to read a Shakespeare play in his first year at mainstream big school, didn’t I think it was inappropriate a) Romeo and Juliet for the subject matter and b) how would an 12 year old ever understand the language? She was bemused when I said that Dd2 had been ok with it when we did it last year but much preferred Macbeth. We had previously started with a Midsummer Nights Dream in “children’s edition” and she hated it and wanted it in proper Shakespearean language as it sounded “off”. She also enjoys Chaucer for the language. She also does his homework with him on a regular basis and texts me for help because neither of them understand the questions and when he asks for help in class just gets told to be quiet, it’s been explained.
Don’t assume we all live for social media likes or have tinfoil hats, most of us give up our entire lives to make the lives of our children better for whatever reason which is literally nobody else’s business. We have to satisfy the LA that our education is satisfactory and there’s a lot of work goes into recording that so we can demonstrate the appropriate progress, it’s not like we skip off into the sunset and put the kids in a cupboard under the stairs waiting for a letter from Hogwarts.
As for a safeguarding issue, there is no reason to suggest that Home Education is a safeguarding issue, many children are at risk within a school setting and many more are being abused at home and it’s not recognised when they are at school. May I point out that the widely named case of poor Sara Sharif was abused at home while attending school and known to social services since birth, the poor girl has since been erroneously used posthumously as a poster campaign by Starmer’s minions to vilify Home Education while he brings in digital id by the back door, makes disgraceful changes for the worse for SEN children including within schools and brings unprecedented control over internet access which will have an impact on SEN, LQBTQ+ and other aspects of life for adolescents in and out of school and make the lives of those of us who do teach at home harder again.
I’m not saying every Home Ed family is perfect but there’s a huge network of us and the vast majority are people who are working extremely hard to ensure their children learn to the best of their abilities, whatever their circumstances and it’s this perception that people allow their children to do nothing is very insulting and very disrespectful. Most parents want the best for their children and if that’s giving them a tailored education then why assume they would sit around not doing anything and choosing to allow their children not to thrive, that literally makes no sense? Just because something is different doesn’t make it wrong.

You didn’t list bullying in your reasons, I know two children home Ed because they were bullied in school badly, one bullied in two schools. Some schools are awful for quiet introverts, at the end of school I see a number of quiet children rushing out head down.

I used to do this and for about a month one year had a bully stand at the bus stop as I ran by asking me to talk in my funny voice. Had my parents been able to home educate I’m not sure Id have missed out given I loved school work but walked around on my own at lunchtime, got picked last for everything and had nobody to sit beside on the school tour bus unless someone was forced over to me in which case I was mostly ignored as they spoke over my head to their friends or we’d sit in silence. I was lucky later in school to find my people so there’s a pros cons thing here as I endured A LOT before that (special mention for the girl who stood up in our English class and asked could I not speak in debate as I took too long to get some words out).

I think it’s easy to roll your eyes at different home set ups until you’re faced with eg school refusal, constant illnesses, bullying, a child who is obviously different and hasn’t yet been able to integrate into social environments. Of course some schools do these kids the world of good but overfilled schools with all their behavioural problems now- not so much!

Worryingly, the people I see wanting to home educate are mainly doing so to avoid school fines from taking their kids on holiday! We have taken ours out before but we stayed under the threshold for a fine. So many people just taking their kids absolute piss and then acting the victim when they’re taken to court.

Lockdown showed me I am not at all compatible with home educating, plus I work full time so it just wouldn’t be possible. I do wonder how it can be done properly for the children to achieve their GCSE’s etc.

I think it can work well when parents get together in home school cooperative communities, hire tutors etc - as long as the kids can socialize and they make progress and they have access to third spaces eg church to have that sense of belonging or community - I think when it’s done like this it can potentially be even better than school, but one parent trying to do it all at home with no friends or support is a disaster.
I’ve seen Facebook groups advising parents to keep the local authority away from them which is silly, as the local authority home visits can give lots of support and guidance

I agree. How will they cope with college,Uni or the work place? 😞

Home ed doesn’t take away bullying.

there were huge issues with bullying at various groups I went to over the years and that was the only bullying my son ever experienced.

The parents I know who have done Home Ed have done it as a last resort for SEN kids who weren't coping. Their other children have stayed in mainstream school.

Absolutely agree with this.

My dc schools have loads of outdoor space that they get to use, plus forest school provision and obviously lots of outdoor PE. Plus the fact that we do loads of dog walks, bike rides, wild swims and tree climbing as a family. We go to museums, libraries, galleries and theatres at weekends and holidays. Talking about these activities as if they are somehow a USP of HE is just odd.

Skinkytoilet

I’m just actually asking so no disrespect but how doesn’t it? I went to guides, horse riding, swimming, the library and had friends in my area but school was where I was bullied. Both primary and secondary. The kids I know who were homeschooled are both in college now doing fine, in school they were tormented for being different

I would add though that a friend I met as an adult was 'home schooled' as a child. Very little home schooling actually happened and she was being abused in the home. Of course there is no guarantee the abuse would have been noticed or stopped if she had been in school, but she might have had more chance if she hadn't been so isolated.

I expect that the vast majority of homeschooled kids exist in your caveats. Who would undertake this for sport if their child was managing well at school and the whole endeavour could be outsourced?

Because kids will be arseholes to each other anywhere.

Home ed groups are no different. Get a group of children together for long periods, and bullying will happen. I found that most of the groups were boring as hell.

Where I was, it was mainly hippy parents who were ineffectual at discipline and their children ran riot, sorry, I meant “ran free” and could do as they pleased.

Bullying was rife.

How privileged you all are to shit on parents who home educate their children 🙄

How about you just mind your business and concentrate on your 'perfect' children and your 'perfect' parenting!

The whole education system needs an overhaul, it's archaic and not relevant to today's world, stop concentrating on uniform and whether they have a pencil and sort out bullying and some teachers horrible attitude towards children who aren't perfect for them, then maybe less children would be home educated

That is a very worrying statistic, children shouldn't be moved onto secondary school if they are not able to read well enough to understand all the text they'll have to read in secondary school. Its just setting them up to fail.