To disagree with home ed

[Freshton]

Unless in extreme cases (ie SEN, extreme mental health or other complex needs) or parent is qualified teacher, I fundamentally disagree with home ed.

It's insular and doesn't prepare kids for the real world.

I've seen first hand some shocking examples that I can't go into for confidentiality reasons but common thread was parents arrogantly assumed they had same skills as teachers with masters degrees. Reality was kids were really behind, had no proper structure or routine.

It's worrying that so many people see home ed as a viable lifestyle choice. I know school system not perfect at all but isolating children at home or in small home ed group echo chambers isn't healthy.

100% agree. Shouldn't be allowed 'just because...' The vast majority of parents are not capable, and do not have the required knowledge, skills, and education as teachers/tutors.

Yes! My apologies. It's not an exhaustive list.

Absolutely! That’s my main concern as well.

adequate socialisation, structure and most parents lacking a pedagogical background are some additional concerns…

I used to think that. With schools sticking primary and up kids in front of power points, iPads and fining their parents for going on a holiday I am starting to think perhaps it’s no longer worse. Previously I was comparing with my education (90s baby).

It’s not the same. The newest generation out of education have been measured as the least intelligent. First time that’s ever happened. So something is seriously going wrong in our education system.

This rather misses the point that most home ed is about self-directed learning. And if you think this doesn’t work at very young ages then you might want to have a word with the Scottish government about their new P1 curriculum…

I’m just relieved we didn’t have to make the choice to home educate. But can sympathise how that choice could have to be made.

Home education (considered informed) is better than no education, but it can never replace a good school education.

I was a bit of a crunchy mama in the early days - home birth, cloth nappies, forest school groups etc. I know a lot of people from these that have HE the whole way through.

I found the certainty that school was bad and negative from the off a bit much and there was more than a bit of exaggeration and conspiracy theorising going on about the harms of mainstream.

I am still in contact/SM follow with a few of the families who HE and they all wrote a lot of posts about how brilliant their experience of HE is and how wonderfully their dc are doing. For some I think it is true, at least in part.

However, they have often only hang out with other families who HE and have very similar lifestyles and views. Their dc have to just muddle along with whoever turns up to HE groups and that is often not dc of the similar age or interests as them. They don't seem to be academically anywhere close to where my dc of the same ages are and they only take one gcse at a time and don't do that well even then. These families are either really low income due to parents not being able to work much as all dc are at home all the time or the parents do work and their dc spend huge amounts of time on screens and responsible for younger siblings.

I find the sm posts of how going to the beach/woods/on a bike ride/swimming pool is home ed etc really stupid. My dc do all those things and also go to school. The idea that families who send their dc to school then do no wholesome or improving or outdoors or topic based activity outside of that is a bit blinkered.

For the pp stating their dc had done gcses and gone to college or work at 14 - that to me sounds awful and a horrible early adulting of your young teen. I would much rather engage with the education system and allow my kids to develop in an age appropriate way.

I like the idea of early years HE and of being less formal and more time outside for young kids. For older ones it never looks remotely tempting or successful for any of the parties involved.

That said, I think people should be free to be as weird as they like to an extent. I wouldn't do it and I don't envy them but I wouldnt want to be part of a system that removed choice.

I think forced HE due to lack of support and provisions is a completely different issue, different reasons and different outcomes.

‘Shouldn’t be allowed’ is such an interesting point. What else shouldn’t be allowed? Raising a child without the security of faith in God? Raising a child to believe in a god or gods? Should government decide? What about cultural ideas, morality? Diet? Should meat eating or vegetarianism or breastfeeding or formula milk be government mandated?

I don’t know what I think about all of the tensions between freedom and safeguarding. We live in a society where single men not yet convicted of child sex abuse can rent the wombs of poor women and buy babies, and I think we have to legislate to protect children from evil. I’m less confident about the state’s competence to protect children from wacky ideas etc. If Cressida can send little Otter to Steiner school, I want the option to home educate mine.

By what measure? What statistics? Outperform in what way?

Definitely not in my circle.

I would like to see those statistics too, as it really wasn’t what I saw.

I find the sm posts of how going to the beach/woods/on a bike ride/swimming pool is home ed etc really stupid. My dc do all those things and also go to school. The idea that families who send their dc to school then do no wholesome or improving or outdoors or topic based activity outside of that is a bit blinkered.

Whilst I fully support families HE I have seen this too. Instagram posts 'look, 5YO DS couldn't be out in the fields if he was in school 6 hours a day'.

And actually at DCs school they do have these opportunities, but I acknowledge we are very lucky to have this. They are a Nurture UK accredited school and have OPAL play at play times. So my DCs are out in the field at playtime, often in the 'digging pit' at playtime or riding around the playground on bikes. During school hours they are often outside planting seeds and nurturing their veg. They have forest school each week and have decent climbing frames and a trim trail in the playground. The classes are always out and about in the village linking the outside to the curriculum. And they are often out of school and straight into the playpark. Out on their bikes, at the beach and swimming at the weekends/on evenings.

there are certainly some parents failing their children by doing a poor job. I know if some. But more often it’s due to children needing different education to how school does things.

I home educate because my SEN son hasn’t been allocated a school place due to his needs not fitting with any available school. I fought the LA for 4 years (still fighting them) for him to have access to education. Nothing fourthcoming. It’s ruined our life’s as I’ve had to quit work to care for him and fill the gap in education myself. Yes he is significantly behind and very isolated and lonely. I’m not a specialist teacher!! But if I didn’t do it he wouldn’t be getting anything from the LA.

my dd also autistic but the nice compliant type was in school. Feeling bullied and not understanding the work. I was having to re teach her what was taught in the day. The school wouldn’t work with me. Literally said they can’t see everything all the time with the classroom lay out they know there is a group of violent boys but they can’t stop them. And they know she is saying she is struggling and doesn’t understand but she one of the best in the class, her behaviour is good so she will not be getting any extra help as it goes to the disruptive kids first. She then got working towards in her SATS. Fuck that I pulled her out too as I’m home anyway and she has literally flourished. She does have an English tutor as I don’t trust myself to do a good enough job on that subject and she’s now working way ahead of her chronological age and finally happy.

I get so angry seeing people anti home education when they have access to good schools or children without significant SEN/appropriate support. You have no fucking clue how education pans out of your child is different. I also get equally angry at a certain type of unschooler who is actually not educating and failing their children very publicly and giving all home education a bad name. One in our local FB group was asking what jobs her now adult dd could do as because she was home Ed she didn’t even have basic math and English and now finding she can’t get any work. I don’t know that child personally so maybe there is information I don’t know, but they were at every home Ed meet up always busy not doing any academic work- my SEN child could not cope with these meetings ups due to the needs that have meant he’s kicked out of school. but it’s child abuse to fuck your child’s life up that way when that have the ability to get basic maths and English in my opinion.

im happy to do the annual reports for the LA and prove we are doing our education with dd. She’s out preforming school children accross the board as many many home education kids do. My son if fully home Ed would cause me problems but I actually don’t officially home Ed him I have left the responsibility for his education with the LA who just neglect him and because saying he’s under educated would look bad on them a 9 year old who cannot read or write and to their knowledge is getting no education is completely acceptable. There are children in school this behind and the schools are allowed to do this but god forbid people home educate what if they fall behind?! You just don’t understand the school system.

id estimate half the parents I know home educating who are actually educating are ex teacher or had experience in education and thought no way will I subject my kid to that

I agree to an extent once children are older, however I do think 4/5 is very young to be in full time education. Much of Europe start school later and focus more on being outdoors and creative play in those formative years.

We actually have a flexi school arrangement for the first couple of years so have one day off a week and he can attend forest school for part of that day, meet up with home ed groups, or we simply go out to a farm or something! It really does feel like the best of both worlds but I wouldn’t trust myself to be able to educate him to the degree he needs as he gets older and so he will be going in full time from year 2 most likely.

I agree but it's not a popular view on here

I agree with you most parents aren't qualified to be teachers it might seem like a good idea now but wait until their older and can't get a job because they haven't been to proper school

There are good HE parents and bad HE parents. There are good teachers and bad teachers. We shouldn't generalise.

Many schools use TAs to teach lessons so please don't assume that your DCs are always being taught by qualified teachers. Also, most teacher training these days is learning on the job, with very little guidance or time spent in lectures on types of learning etc. They are thrown in the deep end and learn to cope (sink or swim). To pass their PGCE they write a few essays on behaviour etc. and get judged on their performance in the classroom. The most needed skills for teaching in the state sector are classroom and behaviour management - something not required in HE. I know all this because my DC who was HE'd herself by me, is now a state school teacher. I was an unqualified teacher (with a PhD in my subject) many years ago and had no support at all, just given a timetable and expected to get on with it. It is a complete myth that in general teachers have any special talents!

I do however think HE needs more oversight to ensure that all children are getting a good education that suits their needs. The issue of SEN children being HE is important because it has become one of the biggest drivers of HE.

Before the millenium, many HE children just had a few years out of school for various reasons. I personally had two years out of school back in the 1960s. One to travel (very educational) and another due to sickness during which time I taught myself. In the 1990s in my area many children were withdrawn between the ages of 11 and 13 in order to prepare for 13+ grammar school and scholarship exams. Those who were HE usually out-performed those who went into 11+ secondary education (private or state).

However, more recently I have seen some dreadful examples of HE, particularly where the parents are uneducated themselves. I think this is a major issue and therefore I would want to ensure that anyone with non-SEN children that wanted to HE had an acceptable level of education themselves. Someone who isn't educated to at least GSCE standard in maths and English shouldn't be teaching their own. With the availability of online resources and one-to-one tutors, there is no reason why children can't learn at home, but there needs to be more supervision.

I think the law needs to go further than it does and rather than the current annual written reports, the local authorities should be able to do regular arranged home visits to meet the child, ensure HE is taking place and review progress - something that is being strongly resisted by the HE community. Too many HE children are spending their days gaming or are left in the home alone. Safeguarding children and ensuring that they all get an adequate education must be paramount, but forcing all children into school isn't the answer.

My child has been effectively home educating for 2 years now, while still on roll at their old school. The council have failed utterly to find a suitable school, or provide alternative provision. So many sen parents are in the position of having to home ed because their children are being utterly failed by the current system. Those that don't have the energy to continue fighting give in and home educate. Provide more suitable placements and you would automatically see home ed numbers drop.

I used to tutor home ed children. They were all so far behind it was unbelievable.

Op unless you have experience of home education. You really can't understand .

One of my children I had to educate at home .The school for them was a nightmare. They were more isolated there than with me ..
I took my time and we got there so while they have no formal education. After school /college/ 4 years you your exams don't count anyway.
They got them early twenties like most folk leaving uni and makes a lot more money than me .so it can work if you put in the time to teach them

I don't understand the toilet thing, KS1 can take themselves to the toilet. By the time a child is older, surely they can work out that you go at change of lesson and break/lunch times? Obviously there are emergencies and urgencies but generally children should be able to cope?

I think a high proportion are parents that started their kids in school and then got to the point that it wasn’t working out. I’ve considered it. Not because I particularly want to, but because it’s been such an impossible task to find a suitable place for child.

However, the only person I know who home educates is because she believes in loads of government conspiracy theories and doesn’t want her child “brainwashed”… The parent also does not have any qualifications and can barely read or write. So I think it can be a valid choice, but needs careful monitoring.

Although these cases have increased in recent years, the official figures have it as just under 20% so the increase in homeschooling is understandable , but still a concern.

Have you ever spoken to a high school student about it? A huge amount of teachers won't let them go to the toilet, it's a big problem. How embarrassing for a young girl who has just started her period to have to announce it to the class and beg to be allowed to go to the toilet. Would you like that?

I agree with this. In addition to all the power points my dd was watching tv shows and written work seemed almost exclusively twinkle worksheets that they then marked themselves in class.

i use the same maths and phonics programs many many schools use at home. I can use the same twinkle power points my dd was watching school with our subscription too. Yes we watch documentaries and tv shows particularly for history and geography (prime has educational lecture series). I do use twinkle print outs but the difference is if my dd doesn’t understand I can go back a re reach it in a different way to ensure she understands.

mathsbots, times table rock stars etc etc all these apps can be accessed as home educators too.

the quality of teaching in schools is so variable. Home Ed is definitely better than what was available locally for my dd. For my very high need SEN son I’m not doing it right and drowning- but I don’t home educate him I insist the responsibility for his education is still with the LA and they do fuck all. Not even a power point because there is no setting that will take him.

I have family who live in more affluent areas with better schools with a very different experience of the quality of education available

I would home ed if I could, my daughter is really struggling to cope at school and comes home exhausted from masking and explodes like a shaken coke bottle, she has so much anxiety about going to school and is broken by the system but I have no choice but to send her as I have to work but it’s not the best place for her and she’s not learning.
I wouldn’t even think of home ed my other child who is thriving in school.
My daughter is absolutely suffering and needs to be homeschooled but it’s not a viable option financially.