To disagree with home ed

[Freshton]

Unless in extreme cases (ie SEN, extreme mental health or other complex needs) or parent is qualified teacher, I fundamentally disagree with home ed.

It's insular and doesn't prepare kids for the real world.

I've seen first hand some shocking examples that I can't go into for confidentiality reasons but common thread was parents arrogantly assumed they had same skills as teachers with masters degrees. Reality was kids were really behind, had no proper structure or routine.

It's worrying that so many people see home ed as a viable lifestyle choice. I know school system not perfect at all but isolating children at home or in small home ed group echo chambers isn't healthy.

www.theguardian.com/education/article/2024/may/15/vulnerable-children-in-england-safer-at-school-than-being-educated-at-home

That doesn't include info on the actual cases.

I suspect they have included cases like Sara who had been failed for year while in school.

The school should have followed their legal duty and report concerns when she was a pupil and when she was removed.
The school would have had to complete paperwork to the LA stating concerns or no concerns. The LA and social services should have followed this up

Many cases blamed on home ed are cases already known to social services and social services have not done their job.

Additionally how many children have died by suicide because of abuse they received at school? Far more than 6 a year would be my guess.

I wouldn't manage HE with my 2 but it's absolutely the least abusive choice for MANY children.

I do a fantastic job of HE and I do look out for the kids whose parents aren’t. I’ve worked in social care for many years and I’m about to qualify as a social worker. You don’t need to lecture me on the importance of safeguarding.

You have been the only person on this thread that has mentioned all children. It IS wearing to hear “but safeguarding” constantly aimed at the HE community when the same people shouting it aren’t quite so vocal about the kids (in school or not of school age) living in their own community who are at risk.

If state oversight is needed, it’s needed from birth for all children and obviously that will never happen. There have been a lot more cases of abused babies and toddlers than there has been of HE children. All children need protecting and it’s everyone’s responsibility.

And what?

I completely agree that state oversight is needed from birth for all children, kind of what I’m arguing? Guess you don’t agree with the NSPCC despite your training then?

And it’s not a competition for numbers in abuse is it.

I do not disagree that the education system is not a good fit for very many, money is needed to sort a lot of it out, young ppl often have a lot of issues brought about by school and made worse by school, I totally understand in some circumstances time at home or alternative provision makes total sense. I was referring to the parents who "homeschool" to make their own lives easier but in reality no learning takes place at all. In these cases I think the children have had a disservice.

From what I can see, the NSPCC study did not involve any research undertaken with home educated children and their families. The interviews conducted were with local authorities. It is well-known that many LA demonstrate bias against home educators and are so very often poorly informed on statutory guidance relating to elective home education.

They are also clear that their study relates to vulnerable children who may require safeguarding rather than to the broader home educating community.

I am actually in favour of anything that supports the safeguarding of vulnerable children and believe that there are definitely cases where home education should not be an automatic right. Sara Sherif is absolutely one of those cases. However, services involved with children age 0-5 should be doing a better job of identifying these young people from an early age so that there is joined up support and protection for them from the start. Home education in and of itself is not a safeguarding risk and this is acknowledged in the NSPCC study.

If they refuse to vaccinate their children, I'd be very glad that they are keeping them away from school to be honest.

I’m not ‘anti home ed’; I’m an English teacher and I love my job. Who would I be envious of?

In the US, where I live, certain loony fringe religious / lentil-knitting-crunchy types tend to home school because they've bought into paranoia about 'the system' and are opposed to secularism/ teaching evolution or some sort of government messaging they think their children will be exposed to.

Home education is culturally a much bigger thing in USA and not just for fringe groups. It goes along with independence from the state and free speech. It is also not paranoia to be worried about some of the ideology presented in schools in the states with activist teachers and school boards.

No it isn’t, but you seem to keep repeating the NSPCC study so assume the numbers only matter when they suit your narrative.

I think you know that I didn’t say I disagree with the study, if it is viewed as one piece in the puzzle of CP.

State oversight from birth is such a ridiculous concept that I don’t even know where to begin so I’ll leave it there and head to bed.

Home education in and of itself is not a safeguarding risk and this is acknowledged in the NSPCC study.

Yes, I haven’t claimed it is to be fair, I think it’s statistically(probably) just as likely to contain individuals and communities where abuse happens as school communities are. But the issue can be that these abuses are less visible and therefore children more vulnerable.

Who in their right mind would opt for home ed because it's easier

Home ed
Children 24/7 no break
Writing Yearly reports to LA
Providing for your children an education
No school funded dinners
Reduced income due to less ability to work

School
Children away for over 6 hours a day
Lunch meals sorted
Education sorted
No reports to write
Ability to work or time to your self

There are many different reasons people home ed but lazy/easier choice isn't one of them

Home educated children outperform children in schools academically and socially when comparing test results. Some evidence here if you’re interested but lots more available- https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/14187/pdf/

Section 7 of the Education Act 1996 -

"Duty of parents to secure education of children of compulsory school age.
The parent of every child of compulsory school age shall cause him to receive efficient full-time education suitable—
(a)to his age, ability and aptitude, and
(b)to any special educational needs (in the case of a child who is in the area of a local authority in England) or additional learning needs (in the case of a child who is in the area of a local authority in Wales) he may have,
either by regular attendance at school or otherwise."

So while you are not being unreasonable to disagree with elective home education, you would need to accept that the same is true for those that disagree with school as they are both equally valid options and supported by current legislation.

By selecting particular categories of people for whom home education would be acceptable (for example yes for mental health reasons but no for philosophical reasons) is a tricky area as currently, all categories of people are freely available to choose home education.

Home education is not school education and not comparable. While some families do have more structure, it is not necessary. Government guidance for parents choosing to home educate a child/children specifically states that there is no requirement to teach a broad and balanced curriculum, mark work, set timetables, have a special work space or hours, follow NC, have specific qualifications, match school-based age standards or replicate school peer group socialisation. It is allowed to be different.

I do think that there is a fundamental misunderstanding that home education must be measured by school education standards. Perhaps an even more concerning misunderstanding is that there is only way for a child to receive a suitable education is at a school.

I’m a maths tutor, I see a lot of home Ed kids and the vast majority of them are pretty normal. Most are home Ed because of ASD, and bullying in main stream school. I’ve had one or two that I’ve been concerned for, but it’s not my place to say unless it’s a genuine safe guarding issue. There’s a few of them who talk my fucking ear off because I’m the first none family member they see in a week, but that’s not a cause for concern more of a funny quirk.

Most home educated kids are normal and on track with their peers academically or slightly above. Granted, the sample of parents who use a tutor probably means the kids I see are the ones on the more normal end of the spectrum, but I do think there’s more nuance than just “it’s bad”.

As a teacher my opinion is based on knowledge of the kids taken out to be home educated. In come cases they will thrive and receive a great education. It saddens me however, that some kids are being taken out of schools due to parents being influenced by social media. We had one girl removed as her mum didn't like the fact she couldn't wear a full face of make up (year 7), another whose mum couldn't get her to school in time so took her out. I know that she is currently doing nothing at all and misses school and her friends but mum has told her how toxic school is.
I know a couple of boys whose parents got fed up of being called in to school to deal with behaviour so took them out - they are outside school on their bikes every day.

There will be a generation who grow up without an education because parents have believed what they have seen on social media or are too lazy to deal with school.

School is nothing like the real world of adulthood and work. I don't think it does prepare children for it. Some end up damaged from the system, so for them it causes more harm than good. If a child isn't academic and/or needs a lot of movement and practical activities, school is likely to make them feel like a failure and not give them the confidence they need to succeed in adulthood. If a child is academic and motivated to learn, they probably will do well in school, but even they may do better with home education as they can advance at their own pace rather than being limited by the group they are learning with and the national curriculum.

Honestly if it weren't for his current mainstream school being so overwhelmingly supportive of me, whilst accepting they just do not have the capacity to meet his needs and knowing they've genuinely tried absolutely everything, I think that would have pushed me to HE years ago.

All of his teachers and teaching assistants and even SENCOs have been so empowering to me as a parent, despite the appeals process being so majoritively self administrative and exhausting. I am blessed to have that support. I know many families don't have that sort of support from their children's schools.

Thank you for your kind thoughts. It means a lot ❤️

Ok I homeschool and I do have several kids with learning difficulties. For us it works as school just wouldn't for their needs. You seem to have a lot of ignorance on the subject or bias. I am not perfect but my kids are learning. One just couldn't read at all and we have worked really hard on it. The school tried and completely failed.

I mentioned all children, and said I would like to see in the UK something similar to what is in my country, where every child gets regular check ups with nurse/doctor from birth until they finish their education. Signs of abuse and neglect would be spotted, indepth check ups look into home life too, families get educated on healthy habits, and children generally get some time alone with the nurse or doctor which gives them an opportunity to disclose. And of course the health benefits of regular screening plus screening for SEN which would be very helpful for those children struggling in school (thanks to these check ups I've got the ball rolling for adhd investigations for DS and DD was able to raise concerns about possible mental health conditions) they ask about family history of issues too which helps paint a broader picture.

It is illegal in the country I live in. Foreigners get around it somehow, but nationals would get pulled up, I think.

I don't agree either. And I say this as an experienced teacher. Unless they've literally written a comprehensive long term curriculum plan (reception to Y6/y11), medium plan (yearly/termly), how can they possibly write short term plans (weekly/monthly)? Or cover what would be covered academically in school?

Obviously there are companies that provide this, and do termly assessments to check the kid is age-expected etc . But as far as I know, most don't go for . Obviously, SEN/MH needs aside - clearly the 'system' is brutally failing particular kids with specific needs in every single way, which is awful and should not be happening.

But that's just academics. There's a lot to be said for being with the same group of 30 kids for 6 years or longer, friends, not friends, different races, cultures, beliefs, behaviour, socio-economic background and how to cohesively live as a member of a micro society.

I am confident I could teach the academics necessary to be above age-expected to my kids (possibly in fewer than 2 or 3 hours a day), but could never replicate the micro society aspect, even by meeting up with home ed groups three times a week.

I've just happened to meet a bunch of 'unschoolers' / 'world schoolers'..... don't even get me started. Those poor kids. It should be considered neglect (especially when the 10 year old is begging to go to school!).

Exactly this. It’s rarely with their children’s best interests in mind. Usually their own one way or another.

I’ve known several who did it because they had a rubbish time at school themselves. I empathise with that as I went to a rough secondary and was bullied. I just ensured my own children went to a decent secondary, and taught them resilience. Thankfully times are different now and my children have never been bullied.

It’s surprising that home education is not better monitored in this country (Uk).

Wow in the UK you can get an appointment with a GP when your ill. Getting regular check ups just for monitoring all children isn't going to happen unless things change drastically in the UK.

And that's the issue. Without systematic change and a while lot of funding the UK can no monitor every single child from birth effectively. They are failing to effectively safeguard young people that are well known to be at risk now - which is why closer monitoring of all home educated children without the extra funding, training and resources to do it effectively and appropriately is a recipe for disaster which is going to cause more problems and ultimately not safeguard any at risk children
But the UK powers to like to create divisions and it always looks like they are doing something when they create a distraction from the actual issue by pointing in a different direction