AIBU to feel uneasy about my children seeing estranged aunt alone?

[TheWisePanda]

I need some advice please on how to protect myself in a difficult situation, and some second opinions on whether or not I’m being reasonable.

A couple of years ago my DH had a huge falling out with his sister. It was around the time of their mother’s death, and her behaviour was incredibly hurtful to DH, me and our kids. I won’t go into what it was about, but it was incredibly upsetting. She was very clear at the time that she did not want to see any of us ever again, and I agreed with DH that was definitely for the best.

two years on and she is starting to make noises about wanting to spend time with our children (without us). She’s said she would like to come and collect them from our house and take them out. I know that DH will see this as a positive and will be hoping this is a step towards reconciliation.

I would never want to stop DH from having a relationship with her, but I do not want to have a relationship with her myself. I know it would be wrong to stop our kids from having a relationship with her, but I don’t trust her, and I feel uncomfortable and conflicted about it. I don’t fear that they would be unsafe, but I don’t trust that hurtful comments wouldn’t be made.

Kids are now 8 and 10 and have not seen her for two years. They haven’t asked about her at all during that time as they were never close, and perhaps saw her once a month or every few months before.

how on earth do I navigate this and protect myself?

No. If nothing else they have not seen her in 2 years/do not know her. They can see her with DH. She cannot pick up with just the children without repairing things with the adults. It would be different if they were adults and could make their own choices.

You know, I think it's a bit strange that she wants to see them if she wants nothing to do with you and DH.

I have siblings who don't speak and frankly, they don't give that much of a shit about each other's children. They love them on some level, familial ties and all that, but because they don't see them very often and aren't appraised of their lives, there's no real connection to them.

So it just strikes me as a bit weird that she all of a sudden wants to whisk them off somewhere for the day. She doesn't know them anymore. They will remember her, I'm sure, but that's not the same as knowing her. And you're not even sure that she won't be badmouthing you to them, which could cause untold emotional damage.

If DH can't see a problem with that then you may have a DH problem, to be honest. Why is he so into reconciliation with someone who frankly sounds like a nightmare!

Absolutely not. They should not be seeing her without a parent present, period.

No relationship with the parents, no relationship with the children.

No

I honestly don't understand why you are even considering this. She doesn't speak to you, she doesn't get to see your children. It's very simple.

I would ask your husband if he’d send your children to any other random person that was horrid to you both, ignored you all for two years and then asked a third party to arrange for them to see the kids. Being his sister doesn’t make it any different - she’s not been interested in them all this time.

I’d also be wary of her doing it through the other sibling. Why has she done that rather than ask directly? Is that because she thinks it’s a good plan or is it because it puts the other sibling in the middle if you and DH say no?

Why so stroppy?

I don't think choosing the beverage and venue is the problem here.

Interesting idea. I can't imagine allowing my children (when they were children) to spend time alone with someone I/their father wasn't on good terms with.

Sounds like the siblings needed to sort their relationship out, then your dh can accompany the children on visits if he feels that the relationship would be beneficial to them.

It’s very strange for an estranged relative to have contact with the young children yet not either parent. It’s an unreasonable request and you should say no. Your children aren’t having a relationship with an adult that you are both at present unable/unwilling to have a relationship with.
of your DH wants a relationship with his sister then in the first instance they have to work on building that. It’s not a quick fix. Only when that relationship is better can you begin to think about you and the children.

I think you can meet somewhere in the middle. SiL seeing your children now, without either of you present - no. The first step should be DH and SiL taking steps towards reconciliation. This involves apologising, acknowledging wrong doings and rebuilding their relationship, if possible. Next step would be to bring you into it, if you wanted. You don't have to be close, but possibly being civil - if you can't, that's fine. Only when the adults have cleaned up the relationship mess, should the children be involved and even then, it should be slow and should definitely involve the parents - DH present at all times. Sounds like SiL is trying to set the pace and the agenda, which she has no right to do. This will take months, not days. If she is serious and genuine, she will be patient.

Thank you all for your messages, you have reassured me that I am not being unreasonable to be uncomfortable with this. I will be saying no to this request until such time as DH/SiL have repaired their own relationship and I know I can trust her.

This is a relatable tale. Like your DH, I felt that an estranged relative who used to be very close to the DC should be allowed some sort of supervised access as DC missed them etc. On the last one, estranged relative pulled one of the DC aside and dripped poison into their ear. DC - older than yours - was very upset. I feel bad for putting them in that position. Reflecting back, it’s a safeguarding risk really as DC was full of questions and horror. That adult will not have access until DC is an adult and makes up their own mind whether to meet them or not. Lesson (sadly) learned. Don’t do it unless one of you is within earshot at all times.

I wouldn't go from having not seen her for years to seeing the kids alone in one go- suggest DH is in on the meeting.

The answer to her ridiculous ask is - NO. And if you have to say no to both her and your husband, so be it.

What does DH's other sister, the one who the batshit sister got to pass on this message, think of her batshit sister? Was she also cut off following their mother's death? Or did the sisters maintain a relationship throughout?

"I would never want to stop DH from having a relationship with her, but I do not want to have a relationship with her myself. I know it would be wrong to stop our kids from having a relationship with her, but I don’t trust her, and I feel uncomfortable and conflicted about it. I don’t fear that they would be unsafe, but I don’t trust that hurtful comments wouldn’t be made."
I disagree that "it would be wrong to stop our kids from having a relationship with her", I think it would be safeguarding your children. She chose to have zero contact with them for the past two years - I'm guessing no birthday cards, no Christmas presents? And you said in your OP that "her behaviour was incredibly hurtful to DH, me and our kids" - to the kids too, not just her brother and SIL - to your children. And she's asking for unsupervised access to them, two years later? You might not fear that they'd be unsafe, but I frankly do. She still doesn't want anything to do with her brother and her brother's wife - has she been nursing her wrath these two years past? And your husband would seriously be OK with her having unsupervised access to his children in these circumstances? I know you said "I know that DH will see this as a positive and will be hoping this is a step towards reconciliation", but he really should hesitate before offering his children up to his sister who still won't talk to him. Reconciliation first, then - maybe - access.

It sounds like your husband wants to mend the relationship with her, and she doesn’t want to mend the relationship with him; as such your husband is happy for the kids to be used as a tool or a way in here.

I’d say no to her seeing or taking the kids out by herself, but if he wants to see her, mend things with a view to then when the air is clear him and her taking the kids out together then you are open to it.

I would suspect if he reaches out to her she will tell him to do one, which will be the reminder that he needs that she is toxic

SIL is the unreasonable one. If your DH reconciles with his sister, and then agrees with you that together they can take your DC out, that's OK. But remember you don't have to see her.

Why on earth would you allow this!

I would be careful of the other SIL as well - she’s either been recruited as an unwitting ‘flying monkey’ to do your other SIL’s dirty work - or she is actively involved in undermining you. I would suggest that your DH doesn’t allow his good SIL to be triangulated like this.

I would also be careful if your good SIL has the DCs anytime that the bad one will rock up to circumvent your wishes.

I do hope that your DH and his sister can come to some rapprochement - to acknowledge hurt, if no apology and to be polite and civil if they find each other in each others company - even if actively / intentionally being in each others lives is now out of the question. This is a state that I have moved to with a relative and it’s much more comfortable for and everyone else. They are just engaged with briefly at social events as an acquaintance / distant neighbour. It takes away any distress and I feel much safer knowing that they won’t be back in my life or home again.

All of this 💯

Update - we had a serious discussion last night and agreed that SIL won’t be taking the kids out until such time as her and DH have rebuilt their own relationship and she won’t take them out on her own until I trust her. We also agreed that even if they do reconcile, there will be no pressure on me to have any kind of relationship with her myself.

thank you all for your advice yesterday

This.

She has absolutely no right to lay down her terms.

i wouldn’t be happy with this either . It’s highly likely that she’ll say something negative to your children about you & DH . Also she’s almost a stranger to your children after this long .
Shes already made it clear that she’s not after a reconciliation with you . I’d say no to taking them out but offer FaceTime or writing to them as a first step .

Part of parenting should be about modelling good relationships AND I wouldn't be letting her take your DC out on their own whilst they're so young and with that back story. She needs to resolve her issues with you two first. You parents must be in full agreement over this, who knows what spiteful nonsense she might put in your DC's heads.

You say no.

You don't send your children off with anyone you are not 100% comfortable with.

I think its bizarre she has asked and ridiculous that you and your husband are even contemplating it.

If you want you say she can join you all when you are going somewhere or visit you all at home.

It's for you as a parent to say what goes not anyone else.